[deisteve]

Same. It's completed flooded. I know ppl won't even allow the remotest criticism of immigration on HN but trust me Canadians are fed up with the huge surge from India.

I've even heard people lament saying they miss Chinese international students who would spend a lot of money, creating jobs but these new Indian "students" just show up at food banks taking everything, overcrowding homes, taking advantage of government benefits, jobs meant for new graduates, nepotism, just DDOSing the whole Canadian infrastructure as a whole is the popular opinion.

I don't know what to do about it and neither do the politicians. I'm not exactly thrilled to be importing this many people from India, a country which I frankly don't have any interest or passion for.

Everyday I just long to be away from it all but tough to do that when you rely on payment from one location.

[steve_adams_86]

I’m unhappy about the immigration but not because I don’t want people from other countries here. That part is mostly irrelevant to me.

I’m unhappy about it because we need them to immigrate here because we’ve utterly failed to create a thriving, functional, sustainable, balanced economy with people who have legitimate means and incentives to participate in it across the board.

This mass immigration strategy is a lifeline whether we like it or not. It’s not a good situation no matter how you slice it in my opinion, but I suspect things would be worse without immigration.

I recently started a business and I’ve been completely blown away by how much it sucks in this country. The start up costs were reasonable until I discovered my type of business requires light industrial space to get a permit. I can’t get the permit to operate from my residence due to zoning, not because I want a store front or anything, but because I’d need to drain water more often than residential zones are allowed. I mean, someone who has a lot of baths will drain far more water than I’d need to, but whatever. I need to rent the space to operate.

So I look around my city and discover this can cost around $100k per year for remarkably small spaces. Like, barely larger than my 2 car garage. The cheapest I found was $65k for what is essentially the same situation as my garage, but I’d be able to get the permit. It’s dirtier, far away from my home, only has 120V service, no internet, would need serious renovation to be suitable for basic lab work, etc.

I thought I must be missing something and started digging into historical pricing. Around 15 years ago the same place was leased for 3 years at $15k per year.

How are we supposed to build our economy in these conditions? Why would I take on that risk? I don’t want to build the next unicorn here; I just want to tissue culture some plants. I like it. It’s insane to bother doing it legitimately though. What a mess.

Canada is failing to make entrepreneurship appealing or even sensible. Regular employment is becoming less rewarding for most people each year. As a result I think we’ve got a shrinking and relatively unmotivated workforce. Unless that were to change, we absolutely need to import labour to fill the gaps. It’s going to feel strange to live here in 20 years, I think. It won’t be the same. I hope it works out well for the people who are coming here, at least.

[deisteve]

Not convinced its a lifeline.

[steve_adams_86]

I’m open to arguments against it. I’m actually interested in being swayed away from this opinion because I find it a little depressing.

I really worry for my kids inheriting the economy and country as I see it, and being wrong could be a good thing.

[pj_mukh]

For the actual context outside the extremely online immigrant hatred:

Canada lowered its student immigration target and then MISSED it [1]. Students in India are acutely aware Canadians don't want them (or more accurately, don't have the infrastructure to handle them). So now a whole generation of potential immigrants have spread the word that Canada is not worth it (and that fire will spread fast).

This plus the standard developed country birth rate (i.e. low) but a lack of adequate infrastructure is now going to push Canada into anemic to negative economic and population growth. Think Japan without the infrastructure.

Unless something is done to turn around this degrowth, and without immigrants to blame this time, Canada has nowhere to go but simply become America's little shrunken brother.

What is actually unpopular to say is that a certain sector of Canadians got annoyed at too many different looking people in their towns and instead of demanding the government build infrastructure and housing, they demanded the government choke growth. And well, they're gonna get what they demanded..

[1]: https://www.universityworldnews.com/post.php?story=202406251...

[shiroiushi]

Meanwhile, Japan is increasing its immigration significantly, and we have no trouble building new housing here.

[deisteve]

earthquakes frequently makes poor real estate

[shiroiushi]

Doesn't seem to be a problem in California. Earthquakes aren't a big deal in Japan; they're part of everyday life. Unlike some other countries, the construction industry here knows how to build structures that don't fall down every time the earth shakes.

[deisteve]

your view seems just a contrarian take to "Indian immigration surge is a problem" by mentioning currently irrelevant topics.

[whatshisface]

In the US a minimal welfare system, semi-religious adherence to civil rights and informal networks of privilege make high immigration rates work out okay. The three solve the problems of citizens being upset by newcomers taking up more services than they return in taxes, ethnic conflicts exploding out of government unfairness, and the skilled labor to capital exchange ratio shifting too far in favor of capital for the middle class to accept. It is not a utopia but it can handle the massive immigration that built it.

[deisteve]

can you elaborate please? I am very curious to know how American system differs.

because its clear that whatever you guys have its working

[dudeofea]

US deports people, unlike Canada.

US has immigration caps per country of origin, unlike Canada.

US has strict entry requirements, unlike Canada.

US has less "free" social programs than Canada.

[cscurmudgeon]

1. False: https://migrantrights.ca/skyrocketing-deportations/

2. "US has immigration caps per country of origin, unlike Canada":

OTOH, US has almost unlimited illegal immigration unlike Canda.

3. "US has strict entry requirements, unlike Canada."

Have you seen the southern border of the US now? US's unauthorized immigrant population is roughly one-third/fourth of Canadian population.

[cscurmudgeon]

Do you have any data to back up your statements here (not one or two anecdotes which may surface easily due to latent racism)?

[VancouverMan]

What kind of data are you looking for?

A census was performed in 2021, but I wouldn't trust its findings to be relevant. It was done in the middle of harsh government-imposed lockdowns and other severe disruptions throughout the whole country. A lot of foreigners who could temporarily leave Canada did so, and many foreign "students" and "temporary workers" delayed their arrivals. There has been a huge influx of foreigners since then, too. Unfortunately, we'll have to wait until 2026 for the next census and more recent data.

This also isn't a subject that sees objective study in academic settings, either. I don't think that it would even be possible to study objectively in such a setting, given then the lucrative financial ties between foreign "students" and Canada's universities themselves.

Any researcher daring to even consider the subject in an objective manner would likely face significant persecution from a variety of sources.

For their own personal safety, it's a topic that most Canadians are not willing to openly and honestly discuss with people they don't know and trust, including academics, pollsters, and others engaging in data collection. Expressing the "wrong" opinion can easily result in various types of harassment and abuse, if not worse. The downvoting of deisteve's comment is an example of this in practice.

In private, and when among trusted individuals, Canadians are far more willing to honestly discuss this subject.

You might not want to believe it, but what deisteve expressed is highly relevant.

[cscurmudgeon]

> I've even heard people lament saying they miss Chinese international students who would spend a lot of money, creating jobs but these new Indian "students" just show up at food banks taking everything, overcrowding homes, taking advantage of government benefits, jobs meant for new graduates, nepotism, just DDOSing the whole Canadian infrastructure as a whole is the popular opinion.

I mean how hard is it to find some data supporting racist generalizations like this?

If you and deisteve can draw and propagate generalizations like this without data, an unbiased person can also state objectively you and deisteve are bigoted.

[VancouverMan]

What you mischaracterize as "racist generalizations" are simply objective descriptions of what a lot of people in Canada (of many different origins and appearances) are currently experiencing and witnessing for themselves each and every day, especially in the major cities, but now also in the smaller cities and even the towns.

Some of the people I've heard from who are most opposed to what's happening are actually Indians who immigrated decades ago, and especially the Canada-born-and-raised descendants of Indians who immigrated in the past.

The first group find themselves once again starting to experience the sort of environment and problems that they intentionally wanted to leave behind.

The second group, especially those in their 20s and 30s, find that their reputations are being tarnished thanks to the negative impacts that unrelated foreigners who happen to have similar appearances and similar names are imposing on Canadian society as a whole.

Also, keep in mind that your false accusations of "racism" and "bigotry" are exactly why so many people in Canada are hesitant to discuss this matter openly and honestly, and why the "data" you claim to want probably don't (and effectively can't) exist.

While some of us are thicker-skinned and have come to expect false allegations like yours, many others just completely avoid the situation by remaining silent and hiding what they're actually thinking, or by giving a "safe" answer that they don't believe. Such people only share their experiences and true thoughts with individuals they've come to trust won't harass them merely for being honest.

[deisteve]

Thank you for this comment.

[deisteve]

why dont you go find the info you need you will see the stats show which country the surge is from.

struggling with immigration from india is very real in Canada and we can't keep censoring or avoiding it because its uncomfortable

[cscurmudgeon]

You are the one spouting racist statements. You should be the one to back it up with data.

[deisteve]

its racist to suggest Canadians are not happy with the surge in Indian population?

[spitfire]

Import Ukrainians instead?

[steve_adams_86]

There are a lot of Ukrainians in Canada (multi-generation families as well as recent immigrants).

[spitfire]

Sorry, I should have said “Import more Ukrainians “.

For exactly the reasons you mention. They’ll fit right in.

[deisteve]

ex) Eastern european Canadians vs Irish Canadians vs British Canadians vs French Canadian. Totally different vibes and even culture event though they look similar.

color of skin isnt the issue, its who contributes to taxes and society in balance so as many surface areas can be served without anyone feeling left out

singapore's multiculturalism works but why doesnt Japan's?