[jampekka]

For pythonistas reading this: JVM and .NET frameworks are better for large projects in the sense that they turn even the simplest projects into large messes of pointless byzantine buggy architecture, which in some circles is a sign of "high quality".

Edit: That said, learning multiple programming languages (paradigms) is a very good idea. A reasonable dose of e.g. Java, .NET or C++ for example is great for understanding how programming languages and software should not be written. Learning modern JavaScript makes it obvious how Python really suffers from weak functional programming support, very bad performance and a horrible packaging system.

[DarkNova6]

> For pythonistas reading this: JVM and .NET frameworks are better for large projects in the sense that they turn even the simplest projects into large messes of pointless byzantine buggy architecture, which in some circles is a sign of "high quality".

You got to back up this claim. The technologies you mentioned are entirely orthogonal to the architecture you are using.

[jampekka]

https://spring.io/guides/gs/spring-boot

[DarkNova6]

This is not even a counter argument. We are talking ORMs here, not dependency injection frameworks.

The Java equivalent to Django ORM would be Hibernate.

It doesn't strike me that you know what Spring does, nor where its own features end.

[jampekka]

The comment I replied to was to general development. And Spring is the most popular Java web framework (that it's called a "dependency injection framework" is kinda telling about the architectural ideology).

I've had the misfortune to use both Spring and Hibernate professionally.

[za3faran]

I used Java, python, and golang professionally, and the Java ecosystem (and yes, including the language) is far ahead of what the others offer on almost all important fronts, including readability, expressiveness, testability, introspection, etc. You just need to be a little bit disciplined - then again, that is always the case regardless of language/platform.