[hagbard_c]

One person's 'disinfo' is another's info, that same person's info is propaganda to another. The recent acknowledgement by Zuckerberg that the Biden/Harris regime pressured them into censoring information should give you some thought about what is 'disinfo'.

In other words don't be too quick in condemning channels which allow voices outside the desired narrative to be heard because the day might come than you need to step outside it. Given that you seem to recognise 'disinfo' - given your claim of Telegram being the main source of it - you can just ignore it just like others ignore what they consider or know to be falsehoods.

[wewxjfq]

The amount of disinfo the Telegram defenders spread about this case only shows that they are far from the critical thinkers they think they are. Back when there was nothing known about the arrest other than it did indeed take place, it was the pro-Telegram crowd that was making all kinds of outlandish claims.

I can tell from the sidelines that you guys "doing your own research" and "staying informed" is a net negative for a society.

[dools]

> One person's 'disinfo' is another's info, that same person's info is propaganda to another

Yeah the only difference is that one person is right and the other person is wrong.

> The recent acknowledgement by Zuckerberg that the Biden/Harris regime pressured them into censoring information should give you some thought about what is 'disinfo'.

Of course they fucking did, and so they should have. Also, you think the current Republican controlled senate hasn't applied any "pressure" to obtain this statement right now for their bullshit committee?

Facebook's statement doesn't say they shut down anything factual, just that they took down a bunch of covid content "including humour and satire". The shit they took down was still disinfo. The entire anti-vaccination movement is libertarian propaganda (why do you think there's no anti-anaesthetics movement? It's made by the same companies, used about as widely and is orders of magnitude more dangerous).

> In other words don't be too quick in condemning channels which allow voices outside the desired narrative to be heard because the day might come than you need to step outside it

It's patently obvious that Telegram is a Russian operation. The messages aren't really encrypted, the founder isn't really in exile, and oh it just so happens that all the most batshit crazy conspiracy theories originate there.

[madars]

>why do you think there's no anti-anaesthetics movement?

for one, I've never been required to get anesthesia as a condition of employment. lumping all vaccines together is not productive and we don't do that when discussing painkillers. there is a movement against OxyContin but not a movement against Ibuprofen.

[dools]

> for one, I've never been required to get anesthesia as a condition of employment

You've been required to get anaesthesia as a condition of getting dental work done, or any number of routine day procedures, or more serious operations. Maybe you've never had to have anaesthetic at all, but you certainly will at some point in your life.

> lumping all vaccines together is not productive and we don't do that when discussing painkillers. there is a movement against OxyContin but not a movement against Ibuprofen

There is no "movement against oxycontin". There are a slew of well documented and successful legal cases against Purdue for its misleading advertising of Oxy in the US, but there's not like, a groundswell of conspiracy theories about it. In fact, the way that the Oxy case has played out is a good example of what real conspiracy looks like, and how it shows up in the legal system.

Sure there are accidental overdoses in other countries, and people everywhere every day are either hospitalised or die from accidental or intentional overdoses of opioids, but not to the same scale. The way that it's played out in the US worse than anywhere else and is as much to do with the dysfunctional nature of the healthcare system that allowed Purdue to behave the way it did, as it is to do with the drugs themselves.

Compared to that, the covid vaccine story (and story about vaccines generally) is a case in point about what a manufactured conspiracy theory looks like and how it shows up in the legal system (ie. a series of politically motivated lawsuits that fall along party lines).

[hagbard_c]

> You've been required to get anaesthesia as a condition of getting dental work done

Odd, that has always been optional where I've lived - the Netherlands and Sweden, mostly. I understand that is is a requirement for very large operations but for normal procedures it has never been a requirement.

> covid vaccine story (and story about vaccines generally)

Why do you insist on lumping together these two very disparate cases? There is an enormous gap between the small cohort of people who distrust established vaccines - e.g. those administered to children, those needed when travelling to the tropics, etc. - and the large cohort who distrust the experimental SARS2 therapeutics which were forced upon the masses in different ways. All you achieve by lumping these two together is to increase distrust in established vaccines, both by exposing the second cohort to the arguments of the first as well as by the fact that the negative side effects of the SARS2 therapeutics are slowly but surely being published to a wider audience.

[hagbard_c]

> Yeah the only difference is that one person is right and the other person is wrong.

Says everyone. While there are clear examples where this is the case - e.g. SARS2 vaccines do not protect against infection nor do they protect against infecting others - there are many other situations where 'right' and 'wrong' are not so clearly defined. When someone claims a certain party or presidential candidate is a 'threat to democracy' there is no clear 'right' or 'wrong' as these are opinions, not facts.

Your following statements with regards to the 'current Republican-controlled senate' show where your bias lies and explains why you react the way you do. Now try to step outside your bubble for a while - and yes, you are in a bubble just like most others (myself included) are - and step in another one, say the bubble inhabited by a Russian or someone who supports the current Russian regime. That person would consider it 'patently obvious that Facebook (et al) are American operations. The messages can be intercepted by the operators who censor on behalf of the American regime.

If you are happy using platforms which are controlled by this or that government, fine. I prefer to be able to say what I want without either the American or Russian or French or Swedish or Dutch (etc.) governments interfering or censoring so I run my own services. This happens to be dead-easy and nearly maintenance-free.