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by XorNot 659 days ago
The free will argument has always been junk though because it's based on a bait-and-switch: "quantum mechanics is random, and therefore the future is not predictable with certainty" gets turned around into "so I have free independent will".

You should be able to see the problem: random events are not free will, they're random. The only thing it concludes is that some part of your perceived decision making is no longer predictable - it doesn't mean "you" are in charge of it somehow.
2 comments
davidmurdoch 659 days ago
My credentials are: I really like reading and watching scientific fiction.

I think the idea of free will and quantum randomness is that the randomness can be influenced by :magic: something else :magic:, e.g., a soul/spirit/diety.

Combining any of wave theory, quantum entanglement, quantum randomness, and string theory and you've got all sorts of fun ways to attempt to justify the idea of free will.

(not taking sides on free will here, I'm just stating there are nearly infinite reasons for it's existence that will be made)

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Vecr 659 days ago
Yes, that's what I mean by "new physics".
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davidmurdoch 658 days ago
Not being snarky, but when would "new physics" just became a "theory"? These ideas aren't all that new.
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Vecr 658 days ago
I didn't say they can't be theories. I don't think Penrose ever got that far though. There theoretically were some measurements that would distinguish the idea, but since it was attached to quantum gravity the math was never worked out.
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jusssi 659 days ago
Not arguing against the philosophy here, but wouldn't sufficiently unpredictable make it indistinguishable from free will, for practical purposes?
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anthk 659 days ago
No. Does a browser have free will? No, it's bound to either the instructions from the OS/Processor or the user input.
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jusssi 658 days ago
> Does a browser have free will?

I feel like a browser is lacking some other prerequisites that disqualifies it from being a good example in this case. At least my browser doesn't claim to be conscious.

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anthk 658 days ago
Who cares if it's conscious or not. Chemistry and Physics are the same everywhere. You are atoms are not magical.
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