[cja]

Why are so many people taking this at face value? There's a war going on and the man in charge of the communications system for one side flew to try to meet his leader and then flew to an enemy country where there was a warrant for his arrest.

I'm not saying the French aren't serious about the charges they've published but they're hardly the main point.

There's plenty in the media about the use of Telegram by the the Russian military and intelligence services, as well as politicians. For example: https://www.politico.eu/article/telegram-ceo-arrest-pavel-du...

[hakdht]

Yes, the situation is strange. According to many sources the following is true:

1) Russia uses Telegram for military communications.

2) Russian military bloggers use Telegram for detailed updates, including graphic pictures.

3) Ukrainian military bloggers do the same.

4) Russian mercenaries use Telegram in former French colonies in Africa.

France may want to shut down 4), but I would think that Western intelligence services would not want to shut down the uses in the Ukraine conflict because they can track everything. So maybe they just want a better tracking API.

They would want to shut it down in preparation for a large Middle East war though. In that case, they'd prefer hand picked CNN embedded journalists and not have graphic pictures appear freely.

Lavabit was mentioned here. Perhaps Durov should just announce to shut down Telegram and find out if certain forces beg him to continue the service.

[konart]

> in charge of the communications system for one side

Telegram us being used by both sides of the conflict. It is as populat in Ukraine as it in Russia. (or other ex-USSR states for that matter)

[cja]

It's not used by the Ukrainian military. It is used extensively by Russian military and intelligence

[squidbeak]

If Ukrainian drone teams and others are using it to publish their footage, in what sense is it not being used by the Ukrainian military?

[tucnak]

In the sense that it's not used for military communications.

[konart]

I seriously doubt you will be able to prove it.

Ukrainian military bloggers use it, their public persons use it and while there is probably an an order that dictates not to use it - I really doubt it is being followed completely considering the vast majority of Ukrainian military are yesterdays conscripts and not professional soldiers. Some of them drink, some of them sell their equipment, some of them gamble.

I really doubt they don't use telegram. Maybe it is not systemic but neither this is for Russia.

[tucnak]

Our military's comms are over Matrix/Element, Whatsapp, Signal (in the descending order of significance.) Officers are trained to avoid Telegram just like the other known-to-be-compromised communication channels.

Nobody who's got a secret to keep would use it.

[sofixa]

I see this argument a lot, but it falls apart when you realise Ukraine also extensively uses Telegram. Maybe not for official state business (Zelenskyy chatting with his intelligence chief), but many times officials communicate with civilians via Telegram channels.

[akira2501]

He could be selling one side out against the other.

[cja]

Your second sentence contradicts your first

[sofixa]

It doesn't. Public service announcements are extremely critical for a nation at war.

[cja]

They aren't secret. France and its allies having access to Telegram data/systems doesn't affect Ukraine's ability to use it for that purpose.

[malinens]

That's just wrong. Telegram is trusted by both Ukraine and Russia. That tells a lot. Also I am living near Russian border and remember well how Durov left Russia and I am quite sure he is not puppet of Putin...

[willsoon]

1. Is encryption itself a crime?

2. Presumably Durov was in a meeting with Putin.

2. 1. But there is no war, the war against Ukraine is not a war in legal terms.

2. 2. And there is no charge of meeting with the enemy or anything like that.

2.3. So you are saying that we are talking about the charges in vain, because the political underground is obvious.

2.4. Yes, you are right, that is why we are talking about the charges.

[cja]

Imagine that Ukraine used a US messaging system for military comms. The head of that company visits Serbia (a country friendly to Russia) and is arrested on some charges that you don't agree with. Will you debate the charges or the consequences for Ukraine?

Maybe it's because I live very close to Russia and most of the people here probably don't think about the war every day, but the strategic reality of this situation makes all these privacy arguments so trivial.

I need to see this happen to someone other than Durov to consider that it's not about the war. While it's only Durov then I really don't think he's discussing privacy issues with the French - they are discussing his access to Telegram's systems and his ability and willingness to give that to the allies of Ukraine. Likewise in Russia they are not discussing the privacy issues, they are trying to lock Durov out Telegram's systems and the military and intelligence services are working on alternative ways to communicate, and meanwhile the effectiveness on the battlefield of the Russian army is compromised.

[BlueTemplar]

Speaking of Serbia, it's interesting that Macron is about to spend 2 days there, officially for the matters of selling fighter aircraft, nuclear reactors, and something about «AI»...

Now, of course that this happens just after the arrest of Durov might just be a coincidence, but you would also think that Macron might want to try to postpone that visit, especially considering the heating up political situation at home :

After Macron dissolved the assembly after very bad for his party European elections, the Left bloc won the legislative elections... but then Macron, after nearly 2 months, just declared that he refused the prime minister they selected, leading to an obviously pissed off Left bloc, most of which is calling for manifestations, and its leading party - basically starting an impeachment procedure against Macron !