[moffkalast]

Here are two fun facts: Wifi antennas are just lightbulbs that shine really red light that we can't see. Trees are loud, like really loud, but we can't hear it at all since it's all ultrasound.

It's pretty clear that we as ugly giant bags of mostly water don't perceive much of what's going on and tack a lot of made up shit on top to make it more functional. Like colours which aren't really a thing, objectively speaking (ask a colour blind person or check what the JWST sees in outer space).

And yet we know that we don't see these things, because we can detect them indirectly. And we've been finding methods of better indirect detection of literally anything for millennia and mapping it all into the areas we can detect. If there was a configuration of carbon in our heads that mixed with drugs detects something, we'd have built a artificial sensor out of it by now (alas it is but random noise that does not correlate with anything, not even itself). So while there's probably still particles and fields that we can't detect yet and some we even know we don't know about (ahem dark matter/energy ahem), it wouldn't be too much hubris to say we've got most of it covered by now.

[keiferski]

Just because we've found a lot of previously undetectable things in no way indicates that we've found "most" of it by now. All it indicates is that we've found more things than we knew before; for all we know, we may have merely gone from knowing 0.01% to 0.02%.

[moffkalast]

Well to some degree we actually can know how much we know and don't know, with statistics [0] and our observations so far. So much of modern science was easy pickings in the 19th and 20th centuries, while these days we keep investing ludicrous amounts of effort into ultra specific experiments to figure out some small new thing that often just confirms what we already thought, learning relatively little in comparison to the ye olde polymaths making three new branches of science by themselves. The fact that we're so far into diminishing returns is an indicator by itself. Most new tech these days isn't even new, it's just figuring out how to make the already known practical enough to be cost effective.

Now sure, a person during the roman times or the middle ages could be caught saying the same thing and couldn't be more wrong. And sure it's entirely possible that we'll figure something out that will revolutionize our knowledge of the universe entirely... but every time general relativity predicts yet another observation to an annoying level of perfection that chance becomes smaller and smaller.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tank_problem

[keiferski]

The history of human knowledge is pretty much a succession of people saying "we know everything, this topic is done" being proved wrong by a new development.

I'll again say that I think it's extremely hubristic to think that human civilization has somehow figured out "most" scientific knowledge in the last couple of centuries. This human-centered attitude is not unique, though, which is kind of my point: it's not a new thing at all to think that the current level of knowledge has nowhere to go. It's just the typical human hubris that has been with us forever.

[genghisjahn]

With the “God of the gaps” things…it’s always hand waved away. Things seem mystical until science comes along a codifies it so to speak. And yet the gap remains, it’s just further out. It’s a gap we didn’t even know was there. It just gives me pause when I try to think about the totality of things. How can I say for sure how it came to be when I’m not even close to sure what it is.

[moffkalast]

Well sure, but at least in comparison with the entire history of life on this planet, we've known close to nothing until the last ~400 years and have since figured out most that practically matters to us on a daily basis. We don't know how to cure cancer, but we know exactly what it is.

We're certainly still wrong about exotic types of matter, gravity, fundamental particles, the ways completely arbitrary things function, like genes in a cell, etc... but we know that cells exist, what they're composed of, and we're definitely not wrong about that, and that is frankly infinitely more knowledge than we've ever had before. What's left to find are mostly increasingly more nitpicky details that are nonetheless very important, but they don't change our understanding anywhere nearly as drastically.

To wrap back around to my original point, in comparison to everything else the amount of knowledge we've gained on paranormal things since tribal shaman times is about zero. It's still all hearsay and speculation and it's not for the lack of trying.

[hecanjog]

> Trees are loud, like really loud, but we can't hear it at all since it's all ultrasound.

Just to put loud in perspective: seems like cavitation produces ultrasound in the ~30db range at the highest[1], which is roughly the level of a whisper. I haven't knowingly captured trees in my ultrasound field recording, but it seems fun to try. That should be loud enough to pick up something with an ultrasonic recorder close by, I'd think, which is pretty cool -- I assumed you'd need to do something like David Dunn and embed microphones into the trees.

[1] https://nph.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1469-...

[daniel_reetz]

Same in my experiments. "Loud" is not the right word here at all.

[Earw0rm]

Is there any evidence for this ultrasound being a communication medium of any kind (I'm thinking less IPv6 or US English, and more insect or bird calls)? Any hint that they listen to sounds as well as make them, or that there's any information content in it? Or it's more like heartbeats and engine/fan noise, just a byproduct of processes doing what they do?

[moffkalast]

They use exclusively IPv3 (IP version tree)

:)