[mopsi]

> Parties in control of a government are not the people of that country

The war against Ukraine has overwhelming support among the population, as do the underlying cultural narratives about Russian superiority that make the population turn blind eye to and even take pride in the suffering they cause to others.

You can kill the entire Russian leadership, and the population will just fill their empty seats with another batch of similar people. They have been doing so for the past five centuries. The creative class that perpetuates the narratives of exceptionalism (like Moscow being the Third Rome[1]) have a large role in setting up the environment for the looting, raping and murdering that takes place downstream. This is similar to how German naturalism directly fed into Nazism: idealization of "simple peasant life" led to the invasion of Poland, murder of Jews and enslavement of Poles, to fill Poland with farms where every German could have their piece of paradise.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow,_third_Rome

[MrDisposable]

> The war against Ukraine has overwhelming support among the population

I may be an outlier, and this is obviously an anecdote, but in my entire social circle there are literally two people supporting the war. One is a hardcore Z fanatic living with his parents at almost 50, and the second one is an alcoholic (formerly a talented architect).

(Insert the obligatory anecdata disclaimer).

[codedokode]

> The war against Ukraine has overwhelming support among the population

Let me give some armchair analytics about "overwhelming support". In the beginning Putin promised that there will be no mobilization, yet later he mobilized an unknown amount of people. Also, he passed the laws allowing to recruit convicts from prisons and people under investigation (they are sent to most dangerous and deadly missions, often without proper cover and evacuation). Also the government raised a reward for signing a contract from somewhere around $4 500 to $20 000, and the recruitment posters are literally on every bus stop. All of this means only one thing - there is not enough volunteers.

So if you make a street interview maybe most of the people will express their wholehearted support for special operation (especially given that expressing disagreement might put you in trouble), and maybe they will even give you strong arguments why it was inevitable and justified. After all, over 80% of voters voted for Putin. But why those 80% do not want to join the military and help their brothers and support their leader in the frontline?

But on the other hand, there are no significant protests against the war. There were some protests in the first days, but they were not numerous and after approximately 15,000 people were arrested, they stopped.

So while there might be many people expressing the support for the war, they prefer to support it from the safe distance. War is necessary but can we please send someone else there?

[cyberax]

> The war against Ukraine has overwhelming support among the population

That's not true. There's about 15-20% of the population that supports the war, about 15-20% of the population that opposes it, and the rest is completely demotivated and doesn't care.

[surfingdino]

[flagged]

[wiseowise]

> and the rest is completely demotivated and doesn't

Which makes them complicit.

[mopsi]

The support has been consistently around 75%.

[cyberax]

That's incorrect. When you ask question: "Do you support the war or do you want to get 8 years?" most people will answer accordingly.

More detailed surveys that measure the level of support for the war effort result in the numbers that I quoted. Researchers asked questions like: "Do you think the state should prioritize social spending or the war spending?" and "Do you think that Russia should enter peace talks?"

Here's the link: https://www.chronicles.report/ - you'll need to use machine translation.

Edit: in particular, 40% of the respondents say that they support the army withdrawal "without achieving the special military operation's goals".

[codedokode]

And how many of those 75% are willing to support "special operation" with weapon in their hands in the frontline? Try to guess.

By the way the government will pay $20 000 for joining as a volunteer and the salary is at least $2 000 per month.

[aguaviva]

You'll need to provide reliable polling data (i.e. not originating or influenced by the Russian government) to support this assertion, please.

Also:

They have been doing so for the past five centuries.

And yet the Germans seem to have genuinely changed, and all of the other European powers gave up their hyperfixations with their respective colonialist adventures. Even the U.S. public seems to have, by and large, lost its taste for the sorts of quasicolonial adventures (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan) it readily accepted just a few decades ago.

There's no reason the Russian population (which I do agree continues to tolerate these adventures; though it does not "overwhelmingly support" them) cannot change their attitudes within a generation or two as well.

Given the proper arrangement of facts on the ground, that is.

Specifically: a clear strategic defeat of its current adventure (probably the most farcical of all in its history).

[mopsi]

Levada is the last independent pollster left in Russia. Here are their latest results: https://www.levada.ru/cp/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/3.png

[surfingdino]

[flagged]

[aguaviva]

Fair enough, and food for thought. Though one has to wonder how many people refused to respond (they apparently don't publish these numbers), or adjusted their response in accord with what they thought was expected of them.

[mopsi]

Levada has published this to answer such questions: https://www.levada.ru/en/2023/04/24/are-meaningful-public-op...

In short, insignificant number of people refuse to answer, and answers cannot be discarded with "that's not what they really think" because surveys measure how people act in the public. One may very well be against the war in their thoughts, but if they go to a munitions factory every morning and fill shells with explosives all day and in the evenings cheer with neighbors over another strike at Ukrainian cities, then their innermost thoughts matter very little.

[codedokode]

I think it would be better to look at number of volunteers signing a contract with military (there is not enough of them). Because one thing is to support the war in a phone poll and another thing is to take a gun and a bulletproof vest and go support it in real life.

[wiseowise]

> And yet the Germans seem to have genuinely changed, and all of the other European powers gave up their hyperfixations with their respective colonialist adventures.

Germans suffered TWO humiliating defeats in world wars and had to go through painful transformation processes for decades. On top of that they’ve had support of western world.

Russians revel in numbers they’ve lost. 20 millions dead across Soviet Union? Who gives a shit? Можем повторить! (We can do it again!).

So long as kleptocracy is alive in Russia - it will never change. And this won’t happen in our lifetime.

US had to withdraw from Vietnam after humiliating defeat against Vietcong and Chinese/Soviet supplied Vietnam army after huge backlash from general population, as far as I know.

[surfingdino]

[flagged]