[coffeecloud]

If cops wanted to win the trust of the public and work alongside their fellow citizens to keep their communities safe, they would welcome to use of body cams and hold themselves accountable to a high standard of integrity.

Stuff like this certainly makes it seem like cops are more interested protecting their own power and their cushy pension packages and their corrupt fringe benefits.

[WheatMillington]

>If cops wanted to win the trust of the public and work alongside their fellow citizens to keep their communities safe

There's no reason to think this is what they want.

[lolinder]

Who are "they"? I know plenty of cops who definitely do want this.

The internet is fond of talking about police as though they're a uniform entity that exists in more or less the same shape across the country (or the world).

They're not. The US alone has about 18000 law enforcement agencies spread across 3.7 million square miles and at least 10 distinctive regions and 50 states. Each reports to a different government body with different rules and different amounts of public participation, each has a unique culture. Plenty of our police departments are staffed by bullies, but plenty aren't. Many are staffed by people who actually believe that their role is to protect and serve, and those of us who live in communities like that are genuinely baffled by these conversations.

[KittenInABox]

My understanding is that every police officer has either personally done something unethical or has watched another cop do unethical shit and look the other way. I have personally literally never heard of a cop holding their fellow cops accountable and not been punished for it by other cops. If you know of something, please tell me. I could use some more positivity in my life.

[lolinder]

I'm not sure why it's on me to provide evidence against such a broad and sweeping claim about more than 900,000 individuals in 18,000 departments. Your claim is statistically extremely improbable on its face (except insofar as no one on the planet has never done something unethical), which is precisely my point: when you're dealing with nearly a million people in 18000 organizations spread across a country the size of the US you get a lot of variety.

As for producing evidence: of course I can't, because "police officer reports misbehavior through appropriate channels and the infringing officer is disciplined early in their career before they caused a major scandal" never becomes a headline for obvious reasons.

My personal interactions with police officers who truly believed in their mission to protect and serve and believed that the majority of their colleagues felt the same way are all I have, but I imagine that that's inadmissible.

[Supermancho]

> My understanding is that every police officer has either personally done something unethical or has watched another cop do unethical shit and look the other way.

Given it's statistically impossible that any individual has ever been able to follow every law in effect, at any given time (or place) in their life, the simple assertion that every cop has broken a law or witnessed another do so, is more likely than not.

[lolinder]

Well, right, but I already called that out:

> except insofar as no one on the planet has never done something unethical

It's accurate to say that if that's what OP meant, but it's also entirely uninteresting, so I'm kind of operating on the assumption that they didn't mean it that way.

[trueismywork]

The constitution is the they. Supreme Court has confirmed that the duty of police is to enforce law, not keep communities safe

[ruthmarx]

Worse, they ruled cops have no responsibility to endanger themselves and try to rescue people.

[cmcaleer]

Police forces that follow Peelian principles tend to want this, as it makes their job much easier.

[voidfunc]

Bingo. Cops are people too. They want power over _something_ and money to support their families.

All that other nonsense about protecting people, laws, safety... it's in pursuit of more power and more money.

[notjulianjaynes]

Two things:

1. I agree. 2. Once quit a job when they tried to install ai powered driver facing dash cams in company vehicle and I wasn't comfortable with both the micromanaging that would invite, nor becoming training data.

Police should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us working stiffs. If they actually did though (and/or didn't have the authority to use violence up to killing people) none of this would even matter. Everyone would be against body cams. Imagine your server in a restaurant wearing a body cam. (I keep giving bad people good ideas.)

In the world we live in I am for police body cams, I think. Best worst option.

[krisoft]

> Once quit a job when they tried to install ai powered driver facing dash cams

That avenue is open for police officers too. If they don’t like the scrutiny they can and should absolutely leave the profession.

> Everyone would be against body cams

I don’t understand what you are saying. If police didn’t have the authority to use violence then everyone would be against body cams? I mean they wouldn’t be the police if that were so.

Besides one of the people who are for body cams is the police themselves. (Many of them at least). They have to deal with all sort of people. Some are okay. Some are scheming liars, who make up all kind of grievances. The body cam is protecting the officers from the lies of this second kind of people.

> Imagine your server in a restaurant wearing a body cam.

They don’t need to because they work in fixed workplaces where a fixed CCTV can cover their interactions. If waitstaff would be serving on the side of random roads, backyards, and in random homes it would probably make sense for them to wear CCTV.

[dylan604]

> If they actually did though (and/or didn't have the authority to use violence up to killing people) none of this would even matter.

That's the thing though, if the cop's use of violence up to killing a suspect was justified, then the body cam would not matter. So if you want that authority, then you have to expect proper oversight. The longer that oversight is avoided, the more intense that effort gets. If you don't like, don't shield those that are causing the problems.

In summary, at this point with their history, fuck'em if they don't like the oversight.

[ryandrake]

Yea the cameras aren’t really the problem. The problem is that the police are free to reach for any level of violence they want, no matter whether the situation calls for it, and are immune from repercussions. Even when the cameras are rolling, nothing stops them from beating and killing at will.

[heavyset_go]

> Imagine your server in a restaurant wearing a body cam. (I keep giving bad people good ideas.)

People working jobs like this are commonly under intense surveillance, being watched by multiple cameras from different angles for the entirety of their work day.

[commandlinefan]

> they would welcome to use of body cams

That sounds good, but it seems like every time I've seen body cam footage used, it's always had so much context removed as to make the police officers look as bad as possible. I usually have to go poking around for the full video and it always makes the whole situation a lot more nuanced than the bit that gets blown up by YouTube does.

[nullindividual]

(May not be available outside of the US)

No context removed, just a hot headed police officer attempting to murder an individual in a fully defensive position.

The first cop was doing great until the second one showed up.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/sultan-man-sues-two-snohomi...

[coffeecloud]

What you see on youtube is not what the judge and jury see in court.

[MattGaiser]

I mean, that would just put them in the category of most employees.

Building systems that assume altruism and selfless intent is profoundly silly, when self interest tends to override those things.

[colordrops]

Both you and the person you are responding to have valid points. You can't rely on altruism or rules alone. They must work together. Some positions require a certain level of idealism and self-accountability that can't be captured by system of rules. Police and doctors are two examples.

[jimbob45]

Would you be consistent and insist all software engineers accept screen recording software to ensure they’re working honest eight-hour days?

[op00to]

The comparison between police wearing body cameras and software engineers being monitored by screen recording is flawed. Police officers hold unique power and responsibility. They enforce laws, potentially use force, and make life-altering decisions. With such authority comes the need for transparency to maintain public trust.

Body cameras are essential for accountability, ensuring officers act lawfully and ethically in public interactions. This isn't just about ensuring an "honest eight-hour day". It's about protecting citizens' rights and upholding the integrity of the justice system.

In contrast, software engineers work in private environments where their actions don’t have the same direct impact on public safety or civil rights. They don’t have the same privileges as police, such as detaining individuals or using firearms in the line of duty, which require higher accountability standards.

Even when software engineers work on projects with life-impacting or public safety implications, they don’t operate in a vacuum. Best practices dictate that their work undergoes rigorous testing, peer reviews, and follows robust standards to ensure safety and effectiveness. Unlike police, who interact directly with the public and exercise immediate authority, engineers work in controlled environments without the same direct power over individuals.

[allears]

If software engineers had the ability and the authorization to shoot people, you betcha.

[__MatrixMan__]

All the screens, or just the ones that let me shoot people?

[ChrisMarshallNY]

I think that some remote companies are trying to do exactly that.

Not sure if it’s engineers, or other types of remote staff.

[tedunangst]

I'm okay with all of my work product being recorded and subject to review. It's even encouraged in some offices.

[bitcharmer]

This comparison makes no sense

[mrguyorama]

Uh, if you are employed by a US company, they absolutely have the technical ability to screen record everything you do 24/7 on their hardware, and have the legal right to do so. Right now.

Cops have LESS accountability than your average office worker.