[shortrounddev2]

Low salaries to me indicates they believe it is a Germanic ideal to pay subpar wages for highly skilled engineers? I don't think it's a mentality thing, personally, I think it just speaks to the weakness of the European economy for the last 20ish years

[formerly_proven]

Highly skilled engineers leave to places where they get their money's worth (i.e. not germany/eu).

[Xenoamorphous]

Lots of people in this thread talking about low salaries in tech in the EU, but maybe it’s the case the US is the outlier? And not even the US as a whole, more like SV?

Are there any other countries where tech engineers are among the best paid workers?

[shortrounddev2]

I don't think Silicon Valley has really been the standard bearer for software engineering jobs in at least 5 years, I'd reckon as far as 10 years. The pandemic also has hollowed them out as well. You can find high paying software engineering jobs in plenty of low cost of living states these days. That city has very sharp problems that it is failing to solve and when given a choice, many people choose not to live/move there

[pas]

yes, someone mentioned Belarus, but also likely in Hungary and India too.

[sam_lowry_]

Belarus is irrelevant since 2020.

[pas]

in what sense? it was irrelevant even before that too.

[sam_lowry_]

Between 1998 and 2020 its IT industry grew to a sizeable share of economy. By 2010, the average salary in IT was 10x the average salary. Moreover, the industry worked mostly within the global economy. with many Belarusian firms subcontracting to FAANG, German powerhouses or growing into big successes in the mobile industry.

Unlike in Armenia or Georgia, the Belarusian IT industry was never a major tax contributor, but its internal spending power was enormous and it transformed the country into a much more livable place.

Since August 9, 2020 this all collapsed. Out of slighly less than 9mln population, 300,000 left the country out of fear of prosecution. Many of them -- from that same IT industry that once defined the bright future of the country.

[dathinab]

honestly if you include other costs e.g. for acceptable health insurance, having children, eating reasonable healthy, general quality of live things etc. the sallies often aren't bad at all

Sure if you are one of the best of the best and are willing to take high risk for high reward and in general give up QoL/Work live Balance then especially in SV you have better chances to make a lot of money.

But for most skilled engineers they can get their money worth in the EU, through depending on their priorities and goals in live.

Like to put it in context to have a similar quality of live in US I think I would need to earn around 50% more before tax and that is even through US has much less tax. Through that 50% more also would allow me more flexibility for reducing my QoL at the current time, invest it and long time have more money (or much less if you mess up). So again a question of priorities.

[shortrounddev2]

Quality of life is pretty high in the US for salaried workers (health insurance is good at these jobs usually). Work/life balance depends on the company. If you work in a low CoL city, life is very nice (compared to larger, more expensive cities like SF and NYC)

[snowpid]

That shouldn't the USA as there are more people moving from there to Germany than vice versa.

[tormeh]

Depends. If you want to live a good life you stay in the EU. If you have the will and ability to do great things professionally (not many do) then in most industries you need to move to the US to do it. There’s just not enough high-risk capital here for exciting projects to be done. I suspect comes from market size. Financiers won’t take high risk without high reward, and the reward is not here.

[snowpid]

Please think about context. GP thinks, there was a weak European economy, esspecially about Germany in the last 20 years. This was not the case and even during the current struggle in Germany (not German swiss), more people from the US move here

[shortrounddev2]

I meant that the European economy is not growing; Germany has had 0 or negative GDP growth for about a year now. People move from the US to Europe for a lot of reasons, not necessarily because of economic opportunities. I think the most common kind of expat I see is someone who works remotely for a US-based company and enjoys the relatively lower cost of living in Europe. This is not an indication of strong European growth, it's an indication of the buying power of the dollar compared to the Euro