[mandeepj]

> "We need to know what 'done' looks like."

As much hate as Agile gets here at HN because of its wrong usage by many people, one thing that Agile recommends is setting up a 'Definition of Done' within your team before even starting your very first sprint.

[ChrisMarshallNY]

It’s much older than Agile. The Japanese company I worked for, did that.

They would start at the end, and work backwards.

They hated Agile.

[mandeepj]

> It’s much older than Agile. The Japanese company I worked for, did that.

How old? The origin of Agile goes back to the 1950s in Japan

[randomdata]

Agile is from 2001. What you seem to be thinking of is the Toyota Production System. It is quite possible that TPS inspired Agile, but to claim that it is Agile is like saying that GPT is from the 1960s (because it shares some resemblance to Eliza).

[ChrisMarshallNY]

Yeah, the Toyota JiT stuff, but the company I worked for is a 100+-year-old engineering corporation, and didn't do stuff in no new-fangled, 1950s-kid-playground way.

But the term "Agile," is a lot more recent (and US-based). I rapidly learned never to use that word within earshot of my managers. Sort of like saying "California Roll" in a traditional Tokyo sushi joint.

[randomdata]

> I rapidly learned never to use that word within earshot of my managers.

Stands to reason. Agile, in the Manifesto sense, defines the considerations to consider should managers be eliminated from the picture. Nobody is going to be comfortable knowing that their job is on the chopping block.

[ChrisMarshallNY]

It's not really that.

It's because that company is laser-focused on Quality (they have a well-earned reputation as one of the highest-Quality manufacturers in the world).

They believe that Agile promotes bad-quality work, because it promotes a lack of Discipline and checks and balances (which are necessary components of high-Quality production).

I disagree, but many of the Agile proponents exemplify low-quality work, because they deliberately eschew Discipline and checks and balances. They use Agile as "Santa Claus for young developers," as opposed to what I believe is Agile's focus on delivering high-quality, useful, and timely, product to end-users.

We need more examples of the Agile process doing really good work.

[randomdata]

> They believe that Agile promotes bad-quality work

Whether or not that is true, why would they care? They'll be gone.

> Agile's focus on delivering high-quality, useful, and timely, product to end-users.

I tend to agree. As managers are removed from the picture, there is no manager to hide behind. You're working directly, each day, with those who are going to hold you accountable.

> We need more examples of the Agile process doing really good work.

To be fair to the managers, are there any? Even the C3 project that gave birth to Agile is widely regarded as a failure.

[randomdata]

Agile says nothing about defining what is done.

Scrum uses the exact "Definition of Done" language, though. I suspect that you are really thinking of it...

Which is humorous given what you said about wrong usage of Agile. Case in point?