[konschubert]

Yea I’m not proposing to replace low security credit cards with low security debit card this is a silly strawman.

EDIT: I see the general problem of origination fraud. But that can be mitigated by imposing limits and requiring extra levels of authentication for bigger payments.

[crazygringo]

> EDIT: I see the general problem of origination fraud. But that can be mitigated by imposing limits and requiring extra levels of authentication for bigger payments.

Which are exactly the kinds of things credit cards do, but it can't be perfect so they still suffer losses, so they still have to charge a percentage.

(Of course a lot of the percentage can go to rewards programs, so we're talking about the percentage once those are accounted for.)

[konschubert]

In the US you can take money from a credit card by just using the that’s plainly written on it. That’s not what I would call making an effort at origination fraud prevention.

[crazygringo]

Believe it or not, they make a huge effort at fraud prevention. Because it takes away from their profits.

However there are both historical and convenience reasons at play here. It was a big transition to move to chips, for example.

So your assertion that they're not making an effort at fraud prevention is just completely untrue.

[lmz]

Hell, you can take money from a bank account by just using what's written on a cheque...

[ta_1138]

And that becomes industrial, as someone takes 50 thousand cards, and then steals $20 from each. Then the next store takes another $20...

Fraud is already a big business, with the current security levels. With worse security? Fraud goes up some more.

[konschubert]

Why are you thinking cards?

A modern payment system would require at least touch/Face ID on every transaction.

Higher amounts would require 2FA, pre-authorization, delays, cool-downs etc.

[devman0]

You said you don't want the ability to do chargebacks, but chargebacks solve two different problems: 1) origination fraud (i.e. someone not you originates a transaction from your account) and 2) merchant fraud (i.e. goods not as described/unsatisfactory/undelivered).

It's fine if you say, yeah I can do without #2, but realistically you cannot do without #1 in any digital payment scheme that will have wide acceptance so a chargeback mechanism is required.

The only settlement methods we have that do without both protections are cash, cashiers checks, and wires. Setting aside cash the other two are a pain in the ass to originate exactly because they are non reversible.

[konschubert]

1) can also be solved with limits and increasing levels of authentication.

[warkdarrior]

Sure, tell me the limit that has no fraud detection, so I know how many card numbers I need to steal.

[konschubert]

Why do you think a card number would be enough to issue a payment?