[snowpid]

The problem on such discussion that many Americans (I am not sure if you are but experience says yes you're) tend to use only straw man arguments (and that's why the reason they are ignored) "When hiring employees means you’re hiring them effectively for life, it creates disincentives for hiring. "

In Germany it is not the case.

"The other thing is the employee obligations it creates. When I worked in Europ" Europe is a big place and working law in the EU (and outside too!) is in the charge of national law. Where have you been living ?

In Germany you can talk to company to quit earlier because these quitting comworkers tend to be rather unproductive.

[lazide]

How is it not the case in Germany?

The only German tech company I’m aware of was a fintech which was a massive fraud that collapsed on itself.

[braabe]

The 6th largest Software-Provider in the World (SAP) is probably the most notable global german software firm. Deutsche Telekom, maybe. As far as I am aware, there are some bigger gaming companies as well. But this is, of course, a singular counterexample.

Germany has a large "Mittelstand", so medium sized companies and much stronger antitrust/cartell-laws. One could argue, that the lack of extremly large tech-companies is, for better or worse, by design.

Wirecard was a disaster for a multitude of reasons: The company itself [lost|stole|defrauded] a billion euros, their auditors (Ernst&Young, now "EY") failed to notice a billion euros of irregularities and lost their auditing license over the debacle. The german banking authorities failed in some capacity I cannot remember right now.

[com]

The BaFin regulatory failure was pretty spectacular too, despite the lid that the German establishment tried to put on it. Not so much has leaked out so far, mainly because prosecutors have declined to take much action against the regulator or its employees and officers, however what is known is pretty damning.

First, they ignored early - like TEN YEARS - and relatively continuous warnings about fraud at Wirecard.

Then they legally targeted journalists who pointed out misconduct at Wirecard (!!!)

Then they banned short-sellers from shorting Wirecard (!!!!!!) and indeed in internal memos mentioned that short-sellers were Israelis and British citizens in some kind of bigoted justification for the ban. Gross and disgusting, but perhaps par for the course in some levels of the government there.

They tried to cover up malfeasance within their own org, including at least one, but probably more employees undertaking insider trades on Wirecard before its failure.

But don’t be too worried about the poor chauffeur-driven bureaucrats at BaFin!

They’ve since reorganised and added more senior employees to an already bloated and ineffectual regulator who are culturally in bed with the regulated entities.

The gravy train must continue.

(Just reviewing what happened through internet searches has caused steam to come out of my ears again. What the actual fuck was BaFin doing all those years?)

[imtringued]

I don't know why you are interested in a niche BaaS/Investment bank. The customer facing "fintech" is N26 and they used Wirecard as a BaaS(banking as a service) provider before they had their own banking license. If you are interested in another BaaS then checkout SolarisBank instead.

We also have our own fancy pants multi billion dollar delivery companies like "Delivery Hero/Lieferheld" or Zalando that Silicon Valley types are so fond of.

SoundCloud is a German startup. So is ResearchGate.

Or how about Hello fresh that so many English speaking YouTubers tend to have sponsorships with?

By the way I was mostly trying to think of Silicon Valley esque startups with a strong internet presence. The moment you talk about things like semiconductors, digital twins, robotics, basically any manufacturing related technology, Germany has a long list of major "tech" companies. I know, I know "tech" is actually American slang for software, not hardware, technology but still.

[snowpid]

Yeah, Such rage bait argument with no real arguments don't help to improve my perception.

[lazide]

Care to reply with opposing facts? Literally the only German tech firm of note I’m aware of is [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirecard_scandal].

Do you have some opposing examples?

[Aeolun]

You are literally aware of a single German company and because of this you assume what is true for them is true for all German companies, nay, all of Europe?

[snowpid]

I'm mean you can Google it. I expect more from a random HN user.

[Timon3]

What about SAP?

[lazide]

lol. The German cope is strong here.

It doesn’t generally get included for the same reason IBM doesn’t typically get included in list of ‘tech companies’, even if they are one of the oldest actual tech companies.

Been around forever (70’s or earlier), large multinational, more about business integration and sales than any headline tech. Frankly, their tech has been a side thought for a very long time internally. It’s a blue chip that happens to involve tech, not a ‘tech company’ like any of the FAANGs. Same issue Tata/Wipro, etc. have IMO. Arguably Oracle falls in the same class too.

A parallel comment mentioned Deutsch Telecom, but they’re really not a ‘tech company’ anymore than T-Mobile, AT&T, Comcast, etc. are.

If we include it anyway, that gives Germany 2 and the US…. Several dozen? Minimum? Maybe 50ish, actually. Even if we don’t use the same broad criteria in the US.

If we use the same broad criteria in the US, probably 1/3 of the Fortune 500 qualify, if not more. Is Bank of America a ‘tech company’?

[badpun]

> Been around forever (70’s or earlier), large multinational, more about business integration and sales than any headline tech.

This fits Microsoft as well. Are they not in tech?

[Timon3]

I'm not sure what gave you the impression that the single example I brought up was meant to be exhaustive.

If you want examples that fit some specific definition of "tech company", please share that definition, or where one can look it up. I deliberately didn't bring up more examples than SAP, as I didn't want to get lost in the weeds.

[snowpid]

So why don't Google it? There is a vivid start up scene, several young examples included but you just ignores it and call it German cope.