[b112]

You are effectively buying those labour protections with the difference in salary.

There may be some truth to this, but it's not as stark as some think.

The average cost of a "moderate" house in.. say, Palo Alto is around $3M USD. Those are typically older houses, smaller lots, less desirable neighbourhoods.

Everything is more expensive in such an area. Property tax on that $3M USD house is likely going to be about $20k USD per year, one may as well say an additional $2000/month. That property tax alone is more than most people pay for mortgages in any other place in the US.

I once compared my Ottawa, ON, Canada salary to at typical, comparable one in SV. After looking at the cost of housing, and living, I determined that even though I was making 1/3 the salary? I was taking home more.

Now of course, there is one key difference here. If you don't rent, and do buy, some of that missing "take home" goes into property which does have value. But if you're a renter? If your primary cost (housing) isn't coming back to you in some way?

That SV salary is actually a lot less than you think.

I'd take $100kUSD in Ottawa, over $200kUSD, maybe even $300kUSD in SV, if I wasn't able to buy. EG, forced to rent. And I'd have more money in my pocket in Ottawa, at end of day.

Oh, and that massive property tax certainly isn't recoverable. You're paying some of that whether you rent (because the landlord does), or if you buy.

[ben_w]

I reached a similar conclusion back when I was planning what to do if the Brexit referendum went the wrong way (it did).

Even ignoring the labour rights issues (because I didn't really consider them at the time), rent and other costs were high enough that I was seriously considering a private pilot's license and a small aircraft for commuting, because that would allow a nice easy fast commute from somewhere that wasn't priced absurdly. That wouldn't actually have worked either, but I decided against the USA well before pursuing that to more than a superficial calculation — if I had, then it wouldn't have taken until Scott Manley's videos showing me the flight considerations[0] in the area, to learn why this wasn't going to happen.

[0] "I know, I'll commute by light aircraft to somewhere in the middle of a city that has a huge international airport and is 'one of the busiest airspace in the world'", yeah, no https://johmathe.github.io/flying_bay_tour.html

[DarkmSparks]

A big section of this is the petrodollar creating an perversly stong USD.

As that dies off and the USD rebalances to a post American empire equilibrium, housing priced in USD will be far more similar everywhere, exactly the same way it did post British and French empires. (back when 1gbp would buy you 10usd)

[b112]

I don't get the reasoning here. Costs in SV are a direct result of the economic powerhouse it is, and the size of the local population. A lot of people cite all sorts of other reasons, but those reasons exist in every other US state to a degree, and yet many of those states do not have high property costs.

It's all about population density compared with economic might.

If the USD was to crash tomorrow, people in SV would still draw their salaries, housing would still be the same price relative to them. You're not going to erase costs due to population density and economic drive, because a dollar drops a bit.

Not to mention, the UK has a GDP basically half the US per capita. That has nothing to do with a petro dollar or not. I really see the "petro dollar" thing is a talking point, without the validity to back it up.

[DarkmSparks]

the best quick source for the "true" value of a currency is the big mac index

https://www.economist.com/big-mac-index

generally speaking USD is going to lose about 50% of its value as the petrodollar and yen carry trade unwind over the next couple of decades.

So to understand what is actually being earnt and spent in the US in a global context, just divide USD prices by 2, then you can see e.g. the US and UK gdp per capita are basically the same.

Its obviously far more complex than this, but that basic rule of thumb still holds even when you add in all the complexity.

[glimshe]

The US is not Silicon Valley. You have a much better take home salary if you want to buy a house elsewhere in the US.

You can also choose to live in California for a few years as a renter if you are young, save money and go live elsewhere with the savings. Ask me how I know you can do that...

[refurb]

Housing in Ottawa is ridiculously expensive. Good luck buying a home for less than $1M and even then you’re looking at a considerable commute.

How one can take a 67% pay cut and have housing still high means you have more in your pocket you’re going to have to explain.

[cmrdporcupine]

Yeh this person's argument makes no sense in the context of today's Ontario, but did about 5+ years ago. Housing price inflation here has made the lower SWE salaries here very uncompetitive.

And it's not just the house itself, goods and services associated with real estate have blown up with it. Home renovations and maintenance work on your home (if you can even find a contractor) are just stupid. So even if you bought in years ago (like I did), the carrying costs are very high.

[refurb]

That’s why this take came across as unrealistic to me.

Housing has exploded in Canada over the last decade. Even in smaller cities like Ottawa, the prices are more expensive than cities like Chicago.

Then layer on top low salaries, and housing affordability is worse in Canada than many US cities.

[b112]

https://www.realtor.ca/on/ottawa/real-estate

There are loads of houses well under $1M Canadian, the average price would likely be 700k.

In USD that's about 500K. a far cry from the 2 to 3M USD in Palo Alto. 1M CDN (720kUSD) houses in Ottawa, are what you'd pay $5M for in Palo Alto.

Inflation is not unique to Ontario, you'll see the same sort if thing in SV too

[refurb]

You need to compare like for like. If you're talking about homes in Kanata, then you need to look at homes the same distance in the East Bay where you can buy for under $1M as well.

A $3M home in Palo Alto is comparable to a Ottawa home in the core of the city. And not a townhome, a detached single family home.

[b112]

If you're going to compare in this way, wouldn't 'most expensive in the metro area' be San Fransisco compared to 'most expensive in the metro area' downtown Ottawa?

Palo Alto is like Kanata, price wise. Ottawa core is like San Fran.