[tryauuum]

I didn't read the whole thread but this seems incorrect to me:

    You found zero evidence that Russia wants to expand its borders

doesn't acquiring Crimea speak against that? Or you don't consider it an expansion of borders because people speak russian there?

[kornhole]

Crimea is history at this point. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/official-results-97-of-crimea-v...

I was referring to claims we hear that Russia wants to expand its empire into European countries outside of Ukraine. RF expressly did not want to take in the Donbas as is shown in the Minsk treaties and its actions repeatedly. It tried to exert influence to stop the civil war with subsequent peace treaty negotiations, but those were thwarted. https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/official-john... RF was left with little options at this point.

[aguaviva]

These aren't "claims"; Putin and his crew are quite open and unapologetic about their intentions in this regard.

March 31, 2014:

  After annexing Crimea and with troops massed on the border of Ukraine, Vladimir Putin will not stop trying to expand Russia until he has “conquered” Belarus, the Baltic states and Finland, one of his closest former advisers has said.

  According to Andrej Illarionov, the President’s chief economic adviser from 2000 to 2005, Mr Putin seeks to create “historical justice” with a return to the days of the last Tsar, Nicholas II, and the Soviet Union under Stalin. 

  Speaking to the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet, Mr Illarionov warned that Russia will argue that the granting of independence to Finland in 1917 was an act of “treason against national interests”.

  “Putin’s view is that he protects what belongs to him and his predecessors,” Mr Illarionov said.

  “Parts of Georgia, Ukraine, Belarus, the Baltic States and Finland are states where Putin claims to have ownership.

  He added: “The West’s leaders seem, from what they say, entirely to have forgotten that there are some leaders in the world who want to conquer other countries.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladimir-put...

May 17, 2023:

  The former Russian Prime Minister referred to the three Baltic states as "ours" on Tuesday, adding Poland was "temporarily occupied". 

https://www.euronews.com/2023/05/17/russias-dmitry-medvedev-...

July 21, 2023:

  “The western territories of present-day Poland are a gift from Stalin to the Poles, have our friends in Warsaw forgotten about this?” Putin said. “We will remind you.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/21/putin-warn-pol...

More likely what he seeks from most of these countries (except the Baltics) is a "sphere of influence" with significant restrictions on the sovereignty of these countries, rather than direct annexation. But either way, and unmistakably -- a modern-day "empire" is what he's after, by every available indication.

[Johnson Forced Kyiv To Refuse Russian Peace Deal]

Though often repeated, this is simply misinformation. I don't have time to unpack it for you; but the source quoted in the article (VR faction leader David Arakhamiya) explicitly denies the overall spin of events as presented in the article.

Crimea is history at this point.

Not to the Ukrainians, and certainly not to the Tatars.

[kornhole]

These are mostly statements from other people rather than Kremlin officials speaking in any official capacity. I am sure some people in Russia in high positions of power fascinate about a greater Russia. The problem as I tried to explain is that Russia already has a massive country but not enough people to tap its massive natural wealth. Taking over other countries is a massive drain and doomed to fail when that population does not want to be ruled by another country. It simply makes no rational sense for RF to forcibly overtake other European countries. Ukraine conflict was forced upon them. They may debilitate the current government in Kiev, but they will not ultimately take over all the country that includes the staunch anti Russian Ukrainian population. That is called swallowing a porcupine.

[aguaviva]

These are mostly statements from other people rather than Kremlin officials speaking in any official capacity.

One of the statements was from Putin himself; another was from Dmitry Medvedev.

Taking over other countries is a massive drain and doomed to fail when that population does not want to be ruled by another country.

Of course the war is completely insane, and against Russia's interest by every possible metric and axis of consideration.

Ukraine conflict was forced upon them.

Not by any rational analysis of the situation.

[kornhole]

I don't know who Andrej Illarionov is or why I should trust what he says Putin wants.

To understand why this conflict was imposed upon them, look at the history. Russia was invaded by Napoleon and Hitler through Ukraine costing Russia ~23M people in the latter. James Baker and US representatives promised Gorbachev that NATO would not expand one inch east of Germany back in 92. They lied and many countries were brought under NATO. There is a long documented strategy to surround Russia, cause regime change, split up the country to smaller states, and exploit its $81T in resources in the ground. There is much more, but I think I have said enough.

My view on Putin is that he failed in many respects. He seemed to hope that NATO could be trusted to do business with. He may have been delusional or may not have had the support to strike back sooner. All trust between the two powers is now gone, and we are in a dangerous place now.

[aguaviva]

I don't know who Andrej Illarionov is

I'm pretty sure you know what Wikipedia is; he's on there. Even that Russian-owned search engine that you prefer to use for some reason will answer your question for you. Except there's no need, because his intro was also in one of the article snippets above that you presumably read very carefully:

   Andrej Illarionov, the President’s chief economic adviser from 2000 to 2005,

So I'm pretty sure you could know exactly who he is, and indeed could find out pretty much everything you need to know about him if you wanted to.

Plus, isn't it strange that you said

   These are mostly statements from other people rather than Kremlin officials

When in fact all the 3 persons quoted were "Kremlin officials", including Putin himself and his right-hand man, Medvedev?

That's all I have time for. This discussion has gotten very weird indeed, so I'll have to bow out.