[Rinzler89]

>They are non-solutions if they cannot pass voter approval.

Then why don't voters just vote themselves higher salaries and better pension plans and higher retirement ages? D'uh! Who cares about economics when you have votes? Worked well for Greece.

>But what are you talking about exactly?

Reducing public welfare according to realistic economic capacity and sustainability of the national budget, and encourage citizens to rely more on private systems and personal responsibility. See Switzerland.

[ivan_gammel]

So, non-solutions, as I said. You refer to a state that is 10 times smaller, has the same demographic problems and over 40% of population with immigration background as a model for Germany, why? Do you seriously believe it can scale to German size? What has it to do with the budget?

[Rinzler89]

I proposed the Swiss system as the solution and welfare reductions according to the budget and you're calling it non-solutions. Why are you being dismissive in Bad faith without any arguments?

The German welfare state will slowly collapse by itself on the long term anyway at this rate since the expenses are growing faster than the income and the only way to save it is to reduce it. Why isn't that a solution? Are you saying math is wrong and can be altered by votes?

[ivan_gammel]

> Why isn't that a solution? Are you saying aritmetic is wrong?

I’m saying that you just proposed random idea that has nothing to do with solving the workforce crisis. Reducing welfare state will not increase birth rate, if anything it will decrease it. Lower taxes will not lead to bigger families, with scarce housing the additional income will be simply redistributed to landlords thus increasing inequality. You propose to treat symptoms, but this treatment will only accelerate death.

[Rinzler89]

1) The Swiss way is not random WTF are you on about. It's based on people receiving welfare based on individual contributions, not based on social need, out of bottomless money pit which is anything but bottomless. You can't grow your economy if you use a third of the national budget on welfare instead of stuff like R&D to boost the economy.

2) There's no workforce crisis, it's just a shit pay and too high CoL crisis. Skilled workforce will always come if you pay for it enough to make it worth their effort. See Switzerland and the USA. Germany doesn't want to. They want workers to work for peanuts, pay high taxes and to tolerate crazy housing. Skilled people with options aren't into that.

3) Why are you so focused on birthrates? Uneducated people having more kids randomly as economic cannon fodder will not boost the economy since they might cost more in welfare than they produces as adults. You need to get skilled people any way you can not just throwing random bodies at the problem hoping that fixes the economy.

4) If you insist on being focused on birthrates, then see how countries with the lowest or no welfare have the higher birthrates, and countries with the best welfare have the fewest. Food for thought.

[ivan_gammel]

> The Swiss way is not random WTF are you on about.

You failed to explain how it will help DB to hire more people. Yes, this is random until you connect the dots.

> Skilled workforce will always come if you pay for it enough to make it worth their effort.

To Germany? No, they will not. I would not, if the money were my primary incentive (yes, I’m THE skilled workforce you are talking about). You are talking about half of current German GDP to make it an incentive. And the whole country must start speaking English as a primary language. And of course there’s global demographic problem: you see, population of our planet will peak soon enough, poor countries will get richer and there will be less and less incentive for educated people to move. For small countries like Switzerland it may be enough for a while. For most of the Europe merit-based systems won’t work - we will have to offer support and education to refugees and unskilled economic migrants. Neocolonial model with immigration-supported economy is simply not sustainable.

> Why are you so focused on birthrates? See above.

> Uneducated people having more kids

Who said “uneducated”? In Germany education rates are very high. The problem is not education itself, but deferred or abandoned family plans because of simpler life opportunities elsewhere.

> Food for thought.

I don’t think you are in position to tell this to anyone regarding this topic. You clearly have not educated yourself enough on this matter.

[xg15]

You're aware that the Swiss railway is nationalized? Since 1901...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Federal_Railways

[Rinzler89]

What does that have to do with the welfare state I was talking about?

[seethedeaduu]

You are spreading misinfo about what happened in Greece.