[rbanffy]

> could be done today, IF we could change everyone’s mindset.

Oh yes! But capitalism extracts labor from wealth gradients, and extraction is more efficient the higher the gradient. Who’d clean your toilets (or make you coffee, or slaughter your beef) if there is nobody who needs the money to pay for food?

[ben_w]

I think it's more extractive of wealth from information gradients than anything else. If two corporations do roughly the same thing, the staff switch to whichever pays more while the customers switch to whoever charges less or provides a superior product/service.

> Who’d clean your toilets (or make you coffee, or slaughter your beef) if there is nobody who needs the money to pay for food?

If nobody needs money, then surely everyone has a personal service robot? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kryten

[rbanffy]

> If nobody needs money, then surely everyone has a personal service robot

Or, at least, they clean their own toilets.

[r14c]

Me? I already clean my own toilet. My partner sometimes makes me coffee, but I make my own too. I don't eat much beef, but I don't mind slaughtering my own chickens.

Honestly, if I had the time I'd be able to enjoy doing a lot more "menial" labor than I currently do. Living a simple life is nice, but because everything in modern society is tied to competition and the outcomes determine my standard of living, I am forced to constantly level up just to tread water.

[idiotsecant]

>capitalism extracts labor from wealth gradients

This is the sort of thing that sounds very truthy but I don't think that's actually very true. I don't think that this property is particularly unique to capitalism. As long as people have existed society as a system, whatever 'isim' it was labeled with (and even before) has extracted labor from power gradients. It's more simply stated that people tend toward forming more stable and longer lasting social systems (in which more gets done) in the presence of a strong hierarchy.

[rbanffy]

> extracted labor from power gradients

That’s true, but in capitalism wealth and power can’t be separated. Even in democracies, economic power gives the very rich political power that’s only achievable otherwise trough elections.

> It's more simply stated that people tend toward forming more stable and longer lasting social systems (in which more gets done) in the presence of a strong hierarchy.

Until the system collapses because of its rigidity.