[Nullinker]

Yes, all data stored in data centers administered by US companies like Apple/Google/Amazon/Microsoft should be considered available to the US Government and US competitors. There are known examples of the US government doing industrial espionage for US businesses in the past.

This is an extremely uncomfortable truth that European businesses really don't want to acknowledge and just keep pretending it's not true, not a big deal, and even if it was there is nothing they can do about it.

Instead they focus on complying with endless security check lists with unlikely scenarios while ignoring the elephant in the room.

[blueflow]

> This is an extremely uncomfortable truth that European businesses really don't want to acknowledge and just keep pretending it's not true, not a big deal, and even if it was there is nothing they can do about it.

Doesn't seem true. We have to use local hosting. Hetzner, OVH or a local DC are popular options. Using US services for sensitive data is just not legal.

[account42]

Good for your company. Others are fully embracing Microsoft and Google hosted tools.

[dotancohen]

  > There are known examples of the US government doing industrial espionage for US businesses in the past.

If you have a glaring example of this, I'd love to know.

[defrost]

It was taken as a given at one time:

    With the Cold War ended, officials of the CIA and other U.S. intelligence agencies have acknowledged that they are redirecting efforts away from traditional spying toward gathering information aimed at ensuring that the United States remains economically and technologically competitive.

~ https://web.archive.org/web/20151016000311/http://www.nytime...

China claimed evidence of eleven years of CIA economic espionage: https://thenextweb.com/news/cia-china-hack-agency-government

and Operation Eikonal hoovered up more than it should have:

    After the revelations made by whistleblower Edward Snowden the BND decided to investigate the issue; their October 2013 conclusion was that at least 2,000 of these selectors were aimed at Western European or even German interests 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eikonal

[fragmede]

That's less direct than "ECHELON was used for industrial espionage", which is the specific question being asked. Everyone should be aware of Five (and 18) Eyes, but the TLAs having personal information about individuals is different from them passing Boeing data from Siemen's private business documents.

[detourdog]

Today companies like FedEx can sell their truck videos to authorities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIUQApnhENU

I think that so much data is currently shared with third parties that warrants are obsolete. One can build a data heavy case long before needing a court issued warrant.

[dijit]

how glaring?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spie...

[3np]

That doesn't sound like industrial espionage?

(I'd also love to know)

[lupire]

One forgets how many Gen Z children are on HN now.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

[fragmede]

Specific examples from that article are:

> gear-less wind turbine technology designed by the German firm Enercon and the speech technology developed by the Belgian firm Lernout & Hauspie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON?wprov=sfti1#Concerns