[petsfed]

Part of the problem here is that it seems like you can't actually pedal this thing, which is to me (and a lot of lawmakers in the US) sort of foundational to the concept "bicycle".

The other problem here is that with ever-increasing electric motor technology, old standards like engine displacement, or even power supply (gas vs electric) are not great indicators of the maximum speed of these things. As it stands, while 13 km/h is not that fast (its a reasonable jogging pace), it is very fast if the user is zoned out on their phone, which happens all too often in e.g. airports or tourist zones.

[recursive]

I see a lot of scooters around here with vestigial compliance pedals, mostly driven by gig delivery drivers. The form factor looks more like a moped. No one would ever use those pedals. Clearly they're there to skirt some kind of regulation. I'm not sure what the fix is, but "able to pedaled" is kind of a ridiculous compromise.

[emchammer]

Vestigial pedals, LOL. Many deliveristas in NYC are seemingly competent riders. I noticed that an increasing number of them have bright red and blue blinking lights the exact color of police car emergency lights. That is distracting and bothers me more than a lot of their riding.

[janstice]

In 60s/70s France 14 year olds could ride motorised bicycles, so Vespa sold a Pedalo - a regular (but lower-powered I think) Vespa scooter with pedals as well as 2-stroke engine - you had to put the engine in neutral to pedal (I bet not many 14 year olds did this).

[codetrotter]

Here’s a picture of that Vespa with pedals for anyone else interested in seeing it: https://www.museopiaggio.it/en/models/1-vespa/25-50-pedali-v...

[umeshunni]

Isn't that what a moped is?

[Ekaros]

Whole terminology is pretty mixed up and messy. Moped is that, but then again speed limited scooters like Vespa without the pedals could also be moped. And so could speed and engine limited motorcycle of other style...

In general I understand moped as anything with limited speed/engine size.

[petsfed]

So long as the pedals are hooked up to the drive train in such a way that they actually work, I don't actually have any complaint.

If the user can easily switch to backup-pedal power to traverse e.g. Millenium Park in Chicago, then I don't really see the problem. Certainly, failure to use that function is a problem, but I don't think its good for society if we allow police to stop actual bicyclists on suspicion of riding a pedal assist vehicle. These things are pretty obvious when in use: bikes don't coast, unassisted, uphill at the speeds these things frequently achieve.

[kevin_thibedeau]

NY state has three classes since 2020: pedal-assist only, pedals with independent hand throttle up to 20 MPH, pedals with independent hand throttle up to 25 MPH (NYC only, slower than standard class 3).

[throwaway22032]

In the UK the pedals are supposed to provide the assist. Handlebar mounted throttles are not allowed.

None of this is enforced.

[piafraus]

> you can't actually pedal this thing... sort of foundational to the concept "bicycle".

Interesting. Just wondering - what does "pedal" mean to you. Explicitly spinning and explicitly with feets?

Are any of those not considered bicycles to you?

-Elliptical bicycle -Treadmill bicycle -Handcycle

[zamadatix]

Whether a "treadmill bicycle" counts seems on the level as asking "if the impossible burger is a burger" or "if a hotdog is a sandwich" in terms of failure to gain any clarity by asking.

On the literal sense every dictionary definition of "bicycle" is going to include some variation of "pedal driven". In the practical sense whatever functions enough like a bicycle is going to count, typically alluded to by being called a ${thing} bicycle, but "it moves on wheels and you go on it" isn't going to clear that bar on its own in this "electric suitcase".

[petsfed]

In all 3 cases, the forward motion is ultimately provided by human power. So, even if you (for some reason) decided to motorize an elliptical bicycle or treadmill bicycle, the straightforward requirement is that its still mostly functional without power provided to the motor. I feel like an electric-assist handcycle should already exist, but its ultimately the same question. "Does it still work nearly as well after the battery is discharged?" I'm not super fit, but I can definitely hit 30 km/h on my road bike, so pedal assist to get me to 30 km/h is not beyond the reasonable limits of the average user.

You can certainly put a motorcycle into neutral and sort of scoot it around, but to make it usable in that configuration, you'd have to mess with the overall geometry to the point that its not comfortable to ride as a motorcycle.

[Loughla]

The first two don't go anywhere and therefore aren't a problem. The third is just a variation of bicycle. What is your point here?

[zamadatix]

The first two are probably more literal than you're interpreting them at first glance. E.g. imagine taking a bike and putting a literal treadmill in it to replace the pedals/seat. It's a (niche) thing separate from a treadmill and definitely moves. In the end I think you're right but your conclusion "it's just a variation of a bike" really applies to all 3, hence "${thing} bicycle" instead of something like "electric suitcase".

[lmm]

> The first two don't go anywhere

They're probably talking about e.g. an elliptigo, which does go somewhere. Although I can't imagine it ever making sense to motorise one.