[nox101]

Repeating myself, I believe that many countries find a good way to make train stations destinations in and of themsevles

Japan, for instance, many train stations have small/medium/large shopping centers built on them. The train makes money not only by fares by but renting out the shops, running department stores, groceries stores, renting offices, apartments, etc... There's what I think is a positive feedback loop.

That's clearly not the only way to do it but it might be a way in the USA? because treating it as a public service just makes it a political tax burden. Something to be cut, under funded, etc....

Los Angeles used to have one of the largest public transit systems. Over 1000 miles of track (compare to NYC 650 miles?) and tons of stations. Most of it was built commercially to sell housing. According to this documentary it worked, until the deals they'd made with the cities to maintain the roads the trains went down ended up costing too much money.

https://www.amazon.com/This-Pacific-Electric-Stephanie-Edwar...

This video also shows two extensive train systems from past L.A.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQfUFhchIlM

It feels like in Japan, they kind of solved that issue by letting the train companies run their stations as retail/office spaces and all the other stuff mentioned above.

I think Singapore, Shanghai, Hong Kong probably have government based public transportation but it feels like they've managed to turned many stations into commerce hubs at least.

[shiroiushi]

>Japan, for instance, many train stations have small/medium/large shopping centers built on them. The train makes money not only by fares by but renting out the shops, running department stores, groceries stores, renting offices, apartments, etc... There's what I think is a positive feedback loop.'

Yes, many of the transit companies in Japan are really more accurately described as real estate companies that own and operate train lines. Most of their profits come from the real estate, not the trains, and the trains are mainly a way to get people to go to the properties.

One big difference you can see between the US and Japan along these lines is the stations: in the US (and Canada from what I've seen), there's absolutely nothing inside the stations, just fare gates and a platform and train tracks. In Japan, the station has vending machines, shops, underground connections to nearby buildings, spaces for vendors to set up temporary stalls, etc. In the high-traffic stations, it's easy to stop in a convenience store, or in a Starbucks, before getting on your next train, and of course the train company is getting money from that in the form of rent. Some really big stations have larger shopping areas attached. But the US seems allergic to renting out commercial space in stations for some reason, and wants transit systems to get all their funding from fares and taxes.

[rickydroll]

How does Japan deal with the convenience tax, that is, stores within a train station charging more for the same product than stores half a mile away? I remember passing through Portland Airport a few years ago and seeing signs saying the stores in the airport were legally prohibited from charging more than the retail prices found elsewhere in the city.

Every time I go through a retail development in conjunction with transit of any sort, prices are higher, and I make a conscious decision not to spend any money there but instead go to more wallet-friendly places near where I live.

[nox101]

I don't know how much more retail rental prices are but I haven't seen prices of products be higher at station stores. I can only guess, part of it might be culture and part of it might be there's so much competition. If you won't sell at a good prices the stand next to you will or the store just outside?

As for culture, maybe this is also competition but I've always been surprised that vending machines in Japanese hotels cost the same or not more than say 10 cents more than the convenience stores outside. A soda 500ml soda at the vending machine in the hotel is say $1.30 which is the same price at 7/11 or the vending machines outside. Where as in the USA, that same vending machine in the hotel would sell the same soda for $5-$8

I can only guess it's because there's a convenience store usually within a 2 minute walk of most hotels, open 24/7, and they're usually a relatively pleasant walk (vs walking across a huge stroad and giant parking lots like much of the USA). Still, the vending machine is more convenient so I'd expect a price hike but given I don't see one I suspect culture has something to do with it too?

[shiroiushi]

AFAIK, there's nothing legally preventing stores from charging more at more-convenient locations. However, in practice I don't normally see it. I believe (not sure) that major convenience store chains, for instance, have fixed prices for the same reason Walmart does: it's too much trouble to track different prices at different locations. As for restaurants and stuff like that, there's usually a lot of competition, so I just don't normally see obviously-higher prices at locations in stations or airports. Of course, some things are obviously more expensive than alternatives: milk at a convenience store is more expensive than almost any grocery store, for instance, though usually not by much. But for whatever reason, I just don't see such obviously and ridiculously jacked-up prices as I see, for instance, in American airports.

[acchow]

Hong Kong’s MTR is actually a publicly listed company. They are actually a real estate developer that happens to run and expand a subway system