[throwaway88222]

As someone who worked at Mozilla, on Firefox browsers, I can guarantee you that none of this is a coincidence.

I have never seen the search contract so I don't think I am breaking any kind of NDA but I have been close enough to engineering and browser planning and product management to know that Google dictates (negotiates?) in great detail every aspect of search in the browser. This is not a simple "you can use Google Search" deal, instead Google is basically the product manager and ux designer for the browser and they spell out in the contract how search works, how the navigation works, what the UX looks like, what is allowed and not allowed in terms of competing search engines. On mobile it goes further than that and they also dictate how the browser integrates with Android features related to search and voice search.

Mozilla can't surive without Google cash and I fully believe they negotiated hard for a good fair deal that puts users and choice first but I am also sure that Google got the better hand and that is why Search in Firefox has been largely "product managed" / micro-managed by Google.

Apple probably had much more freedom becsuse of their size and power and I don't really understand why it is not possible to add a custom search engine. There is no advantage for Apple to not allow this. Other than .. Google probably force a good deal in their advantage? Apple taking more money by allowing less choice, or even being forced to accept a new deal?

Not having a search deal is simply not an option. Mozilla would die. Apple would have to explain billions of revenue loss to shareholders. Both are impossible.

[utopcell]

> Mozilla would die.

Mozilla changed its default search engine to Yahoo during Marissa Mayer times and Mozilla didn't die -- it probably made more money by doing so. Mozilla could switch its default to Bing if Microsoft paid more.

[Spivak]

If the ruling is that no one can pay to be the default search engine then… welp.

[lolinder]

I don't know why people keep speculating that this would be the ruling.

Paying for default placement is a simple commercial transaction that only becomes problematic when you're already a monopoly and can spend 10% of your billions in revenue to stay on top and keep smaller contenders out. Is there anything in what the judge has said that would suggest that they view the simple act of having a paid default as being anti-competitive in and of itself?

[EasyMark]

yep, the point is to bust up google's monopoly, not to kill other browsers and search engines.

[paulpan]

> Apple probably had much more freedom becsuse of their size and power and I don't really understand why it is not possible to add a custom search engine. There is no advantage for Apple to not allow this.

I think you're giving Apple too much credit. They are too myopic and too focused on optimizing their current financials, especially under Tim Cook. To build a new search engine would mean 1) tossing away the $20B Google offers, and 2) spend potentially billions to build or acquire something viable.

Would be unacceptable to the Apple institutional shareholders. Akin to what Meta tried to do with their Reality Labs.

[bee_rider]

It used to be pretty common for computer-illiterate people to add a bunch of extra search bars and other weird hotbars, often of ill-repute, by accident. Maybe Apple just didn’t want to repeat that.

[callalex]

The status quo in fact encourages going back to the toolbar-infested days of yore. The only way to use a non-bribe-paying search engine in Safari is to install a browser extension with access to every webpage. There are standards that work just fine for switching search engines without any extensions or toolbars but Apple explicitly rejects those standards.

[account42]

> Mozilla [Corporation] would die.

And Firefox would be better off for it.

[hedora]

Back when I switched to google, I remember having to type “http://google.com/?q=” into a Firefox dialog, and that was it.

So, yeah. The current friction (on it and other browsers) feels pretty intentional to me.