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by hauken 682 days ago
Thanks for sharing! The ideas are still relevant today! In fact the first documented radial menu is attributed to a system called PIXIE in 1969 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pie_menu
3 comments

My first CS prof (~2000) talked about a circular interface he used on some navy gear back in the early/mid 70s (complete with round screens)
Flight of the PIXIE - Yuja Wang

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDrqR9XssJI

Dedication and Thanks to:

Neil E. Wiseman, Heinz U. Lemke, John O. Hiles,

PIXIE: A New Approach to Graphical Man-Machine Communication, Proceedings of 1969 CAD Conference Southampton IEEE Conference Publication 51, pp. 463–471.

https://www.donhopkins.com/home/documents/PIXIE%20a%20new%20...

David Chapman, Cambridge University Library

https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/library/archives.html

This film demonstrates an early graphical user interface in use. It was made in 1969 to accompany a paper entitled “PIXIE: a new approach to graphical man-machine communication” presented at the 1969 CAD Conference held in Southampton. Rimsky-Korsakov’s Flight of the Bumble-Bee performed by Yuja Wang

https://archive.org/details/FlightOfTheBumblebeeChaameh/02+Y...

Remixing and Synchronization with AfterEffects by Don Hopkins.

See also:

Pie Menus: A 30 Year Retrospective. By Don Hopkins, Ground Up Software, May 15, 2018.

https://donhopkins.medium.com/pie-menus-936fed383ff1

Timeline of pie menu development by Don Hopkins.

https://donhopkins.medium.com/pie-menu-timeline-21bec9b21620

Interesting, I wonder how there are so many radial menu patents when this clearly invalidates them.

https://patents.google.com/?q=(radial+menu)&oq=radial+menu

Didn’t know! I’ve just thought that this was a common pattern along with tab bars and other menu items.
Alias was granted an illegitimate software patent on radial menus that was an abuse of the patent system, because Bill Buxton and Gordon Kurtenbach knowingly omitted information about prior art and made false and misleading claims that contradicted detailed information about my own pie menus implementations that I'd provided to them previously. They dishonestly abused the patent system by spreading "FUD" and successfully discouraged other products like 3D Studio Max and open source projects like Blender from using them for many years.

Fortunately their patent has long expired, and Blender supports pie menus quite well now.

Pie Menu FUD and Misconceptions.

Dispelling the fear, uncertainty, doubt and misconceptions about pie menus.

https://donhopkins.medium.com/pie-menu-fud-and-misconception...

Patent Abuse Example: US Patent US5689667A: Methods and system of controlling menus with radial and linear portions

Unfortunately a bad patent that covered an obvious technique, and also made some incorrect misleading claims, was abused by Alias marketing in Bill Buxton’s name to baselessly threaten and discouraged others from using pie or marking menus, by exaggerating its scope and obfuscating its specificity. It’s my strong opinion that the particular technique that it covered (overflow items) was quite obvious.

Gordon Kurtenbach and I discussed pie and marking menus in 1990 before he wrote his paper and filed the patent, and at that time he made it clear that he understood pie menus supported mouse ahead display suppression, and that pie menus enjoyed the same benefits as marking menus have in easing the transition from novice to expert user:

“The the cool thing is that expert can mouse ahead like you’ve talked about but they get an ink trail so they have a better idea what they’ve selected without even bothering to wait for the menu to come up.” -Gordon Kurtenbach

However that contradicts what the paper and the patent implies, and it’s misled other people into incorrectly believing that pie menus don’t support what I call “mouse ahead display preemption” (or “suppression”, a harsher word), and that the patent covers much more than it actually does.

When Gordon applied for the patent on in 1995, which his employment contract with SGI required him to do, the patent had at least two misleading statements, and the “overflow” technique claim was obvious, which should have prevented it from being granted or invalidated it.

Another piece of mistaken but published misinformation about the differences of “typical pie menus” and marking menus is that “typical pie menus” pop up submenus after the cursor has moved a certain distance from the menu center, without clicking the mouse button. However, I have never seen nor implemented such badly designed pie menus in the real world.

Dumbold Voting Machine Pie Menu in The Sims “Typical pie menus” (such as those in The Sims, played by hundreds of millions of people) have always selected leaf and submenu items by triggering on a button press or release (or pen or finger tap or release). They also typically support mouse-ahead. Pie menus can seamlessly support both quick press-drag-release gestures, as well as the more leisurely click-move-click gestures.

The patent US5689667A “Methods and system of controlling menus with radial and linear portions” also makes the mistake of claiming that that pie menu selection is based on pointing at the items like linear menus (or PIXIE), instead of the direction of cursor motion, which Kurtenbach and Buxton know very well is simply not the case with “typical pie menus”.

“Radial menus include two types: pie menus and marking menus. Pie menus are typically used in item selection using the location principles of linear menus as discussed above. Marking menus operate on the principle of the direction of cursor or pointer motion as being the basis for item selection.” -US Patent US5689667A

Unfortunately they were able to successfully deceive the patent reviewers, even though the patent references the Dr. Dobb’s Journal article which clearly describes how pie menu selection and mouse ahead work, contradicting the incorrect claims in the patent. It’s sad that this kind of deception and patent trolling is all too common in the industry, and it causes so many problems.

Even today, long after the patent has expired, Autodesk marketing brochures continue to spread FUD to scare other people away from using marking menus, by bragging that “Patented marking menus let you use context-sensitive gestures to select commands.”

Thanks so much for sharing all of this. After seeing all these posts I was reminded of other radial menus I had seen and how uncommon they felt.