[ghshephard]

This is interesting - if you think of a popular tune, say, the opening chords to Hells Bells, (or whatever is popular for you) doesn't it make an impression in your head from chord to chord? I'm not saying it's identical to hearing a sound, but loud enough to kind of crowd out everything else in your head (to the point of actually being annoying?)

The thing I never got with the "Close your eyes, can you visualize a Red Star" - is that I can "conceive" what a red-star is like but I can't even imagine what "visualizing" a red star would be - do people actually see the red star in their head in the same way that I'm hearing Hell's Bells in my head? Or are there people who can actually pick up the actual image in exactly the same way they hear a sound? (I'm presuming not)

There is zero difficulty in my mind distinguishing between the sound I hear and the sound in my "head" - but at least I have an ability to hear sounds.

On the flip side while I have absolutely no ability to view images in my head 99.9% of the time, about 0.1% of the time, usually just in the 5 or so minutes before I fall asleep - I do see thinks in my head - to the point of being fascinated by them - but in this case - I'm actually seeing things, even though I have no control over it. It's different from when I'm hearing things - because that is mentally hearing things, whereas when I'm seeing things as I fall asleep - it's not mental at all - I actually see them (albeit with my eyes closed). It's a real image - not a mental one.

You are the first person to have given me a sense of what it means to "visualize" if it means something similar to "hearing" a song in your head.

It's also different from the inner monologue, btw. That's identical to my ability to hear sounds. Clearly there. Clearly mental. Sometimes chatty to the point of being distracting - but there is no doubt whatsoever that it's a mental dialogue - nothing whatsoever like actual sounds.

[munificent]

> I'm not saying it's identical to hearing a sound, but loud enough to kind of crowd out everything else in your head (to the point of actually being annoying?)

I'm the same way and my impression is that, no, most people don't have an auditory imagination anywhere near that strong. I actually work hard to avoid songs that are notoriously catchy and annoying because I know I won't get the earworm out of my head if it gets in.

I basically always have a loop of music playing in my head. Which piece of song is stuck playing in a loop varies over time, but it's very rarely silence. Often, it will be a sort of jumble of a couple of different things. (Right now it's a line from some annoying meme song my daughter just sang and a bit of the bassline from Basement Jaxx's "Red Alert".)

I'll often wake up with a different song stuck in my head because there's music in my dreams too.

> about 0.1% of the time, usually just in the 5 or so minutes before I fall asleep - I do see thinks in my head - to the point of being fascinated by them - but in this case - I'm actually seeing things, even though I have no control over it.

This is called a "hypnagogic hallucination" and is pretty common for all people to experience.

[qingcharles]

Hypnagogic hallucinations for me aren't in my head -- the objects (always lots of spiders) are as real as reality, but instantly disappear when I put the light on, leaving my brain trying to figure out where they went (it takes time to realise it has been tricked).

I can't really see objects in my head, but music I can play perfectly like it's an iPod. Usually just gets stuck on one track all day, though.

[henrikschroder]

> do people actually see the red star in their head in the same way that I'm hearing Hell's Bells in my head?

Yes, that's a very good description of what the experience is like.

When you're auralizing(?) a song, you can choose which memory of the song you're listening to, and you can tap along with the beat, whistle along with the melody, sing along with the words, while being absolutely conscious of the fact that you're not actually hearing the song, right?

Visualizing something is the same, you can manipulate the image in your mind, rotate, choose different memories of the thing - or imagine new ways the thing could look, while being absolutely conscious of the fact that you're not actually seeing the thing in front of you.

When you said "red star", I imagined a red giant star, protuberances and sunspots and all, floating in space. Then someone else commented about a "five-pointed star", so I shifted my imaginary image to a stylized five-pointed red star icon instead. Same as you would imagine listening to one song, and then swapping to a completely different one with the same title.

[kolinko]

With visual memories - so it’s something like that interface from Minority Report?

[rini17]

Can be. It's easier to project it on inner "canvas" than as overlay on top of ambient, but that's still possible.

[Nzen]

To communicate to others my experience with imagination versus hallucination in discussions like this, I've used the device of seeing differently from either eye at the same time.

If I put my hand a couple inches away from my face, in front of one eye only, I can still 'see' aspects of that hand with the uncovered eye.

Analogously, when I imagine a 'red star', it is visible in a different medium / realm (like my covered eye) than the rest of the things I see around me (with my uncovered eye). I can 'insist on' or 'overlay' the imagined image, like the red star situated in a particular spot on my desk, but I do not feel that they 'become the same visual stream', ever, such that I would think that the star could be physically present in the room.

[lovethevoid]

I see a 5 point star with a red glow and sharp edges, with two points in the middle of each side of the centre of star illustrating depth. I can "twist" it in my mental space and see the gradients shift.

The imagination spectrum applies to all senses, so we all have varying degrees of it. Some can visualize every sense very well, others only vague faint unclear versions, some a mix!

[sethammons]

What other senses can one imagine or not? Never considered it.

I can recall/imagine taste, smell, vision, hearing, touch (texture and temperature), body movement, spacial awareness, and maybe more.

I can vividly imagine doing a physical feat, all the imaginary senses and sensations. Same as hearing a song in my head or imagining a red star.

It follows that there are others who can't imagine the other senses. What super imaginary powers might someone else have that is equally beyond my own? I heard of a guy with synesthesia who imagined numbers as complex 3d shapes and he could multiply large numbers in his head by, lego style, combining the shapes. The mind is wild.

[gamerDude]

I know I've heard Hells Bells before because the name is recognizable, but I have literally nothing coming up when trying to imagine what it sounds like.

Another fun story. I did improv comedy for a few years. One of the warm up games we played was someone would start singing a song, then another person would tag you out and sing a different song. I was bad at this game. But I have a few simple things in my back pocket to "play". Somewhere over the rainbow is one of them. The last person was doing some sort of rap, and what came out from me was a rap version, until the crowd helped correct it. I just have no idea what it sounds like other than trying to memorize if it's a high pitch or a low pitch, etc.

Regarding the inner monologue, I do have one. And it feels similar to my ability to visualize. I can control it, give it emotion per say, (not sound for me), but it isn't as strong as a memory of a dream.

[nox101]

Are you saying you can't remember any songs?

I can hum Jingle Bells (or 1000+ other songs, the Star Spangled Banner, Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer, any pop song from the last few decades, etc...). The experience of imagining the song is the same as humming it except I don't actually hum it.

It sounds like you're saying you can't hum a song or even remember one? Can't remember anyone's voice? Can't rememeber the sound of fireworks? Of cars going by?

[adastra22]

Not the guy you’re replying to, but his description matches my experience.

I can’t hum songs anymore complicated than the “Happy Birthday” song (but if it plays, I’ll recognize it).

I can’t remember people’s voices in my head (but if I hear them speaking, I’ll recognize it is them).

The bang of a fireworks or a car going by is simple enough to recall. It is also generic. I might not remember the hum of the engine of a specific car, or be able to play back a specific fireworks display.

[gamerDude]

Yes, this is essentially my experience. I can't recall sound, but if I may "tag" features to a sound so that I can somewhat imagine it.

Like the idea of a firework bang, being low intense vibrations, or a car horn being a high pitched short startling sound. Still can't really imagine it like I can picture things in my head, but I have an idea of the what the experience would be like.

[kolinko]

Same here. Plus aphantasia.

Explains why I had such difficulty singing my whole life. It must be way easier if you can just recall a song in your head and match its pitch!

[iinnPP]

I cannot sing but I can create songs in my head including multiple instruments and vocalists. Admittedly, I have given singing very little effort past age 8.

[sva_]

I'm also a more auditory person in that I can imagine a whole orchestra playing in my 'minds ear', among other things.

I've recently been wondering about the fact that I am pretty sensitive to sounds and may have trouble concentrating in a very noisy environment (especially if the sounds are not constant/predictable.)

My hypothesis is that this inability to concentrate well in a noisy environment is a trait that mostly affects people who are more 'auditory'. Thoughts/experiences?

[fuzztester]

obviously not at all an expert or even qualified in the fields of neuroscience or psychology, so speaking as a layman, but I think it's all a continuum, from your external sense organs like ears and eyes via the connecting nerves to the inner reaches of the brain.

I think the initial stimulus can originate at any part of this circuit.

So I do not think there is much difference between external so-called real stimuli and internal ones.

it's all just vibrations, processing, and reverberations :)

[ZoomZoomZoom]

Hell's Bells start with a loud pulsating synth percussion and fanfare playing the theme, not chords. Great choice though, as it's extremely memorable, but, unfortunately, hardly popular.

To the rest of your comment, it's fascinating how it's all a spectrum. I can't visualize a star, can hear sounds but have no inner monologue.

[Supernaut]

I'm not sure what "Hell's Bells" you're thinking of, but the GP is plainly describing the song by AC/DC from 1980. It most definitely does not contain pulsating synth percussion, but is extremely popular.

[ZoomZoomZoom]

Right, blanked on that one. I immediately thought of Bruford's one, a real earworm.

[sowerssix]

Trying to imagine that it does is quite fun, though.