[whatindaheck]

Tangentially related but I saw some similar comments in the original thread [0] so hopefully this is alright.

How does one move to Europe? Or how does one begin the process? I’m an average engineer and only speak English. Clearly I’m not the type of immigrant counties would love to welcome in. Where does one start?

For clarity, countries like Spain, Germany, The Netherlands, Sweden, and Estonia highly appeal to me.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36920622

[lars512]

The easiest way to move anywhere is to apply for a job there, and if successful, let them guide you through the visa process.

That gives you a visa linked to your job. But keep unbroken employment in that country for 4-5 years and you will get permanent residence (pre citizenship), which frees you up immensely but requires you to not spent more than 1-2 years at a time outside that country.

If you get that far, you’ve done the hard work and citizenship is yours if you want it just by settling there longer.

[duggan]

Europe has a lot of countries and cultures, might make sense to visit first, see if there’s anywhere in particular you like?

English is the primary language in Ireland, and I think as a developer you’d qualify for a “critical skills” visa. Can read more here https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving-country/working...

I imagine most countries have similarly helpful “moving to x” websites.

Amsterdam has way better infrastructure, more bike and pedestrian friendly (by a long, long way) and you can get by with just English to start.

But first maybe visit some places!

[beardyw]

I found that in most of the Netherlands, certainly south of Amsterdam, you could get away with English. But it isn't the everyday business language.

[okwhateverdude]

This is true. The further away you go from the bigger cities that aren't touristy, the more friction there is if you only speak English. A1 level of Dutch is plenty to navigate and do personal errands, and even then others still might swap to English to communicate with you if they hear an accent.

[TomK32]

You will be very welcome as an engineer. We do have english speaking countries in the EU: Ireland and Malta have it as their official language but others like The Netherlands will give you not much problem and then there's plenty of cities to look at like Berlin, Vienna, ... Even in the rather small Austrian city of 200k pop where I live I know a South African woman who gets along just fine as English teacher. European cities are becoming the melting pots again they had been before the world wars. Just learn the local language and don't fall into English too often, the natives will do switch to English but I finally got into the habit of having bi-lingual conversations which is great fun.

[999900000999]

It’s 10x harder to get a job in a foreign country.

It’s a ton of paperwork for employers. If you have EU citizenship I guess it’s easy.

I’d be open to taking a 50% pay cut to get a job in Europe. I really wanted to do this in my 20s.

[piva00]

I'm a Brazilian living in Sweden for 10+ years.

The easiest way is finding a job, moving here wasn't hard at all with a job, the bureaucracy was taken care by the company, when I moved you'd get a 2 years work visa attached to the job you got, the visa renewal after 2 years frees you to move jobs without the new company having to sponsor you. After 4 years I got a permanent residency and after 5 I got my citizenship.

[devoutsalsa]

I'm an American living in Amsterdam. I moved here last year on a highly skilled migrant visa as a software engineer. [1] Unlike the USA, immigrating to many countries is easier. The company's onboarding team handled all the immigration paperwork. Feel free to contact me if you have some questions.

[estebank]

I would add that the paperwork is easier in countries other than the US, but the cultural aspects of immigration are hard everywhere. Small things like the food, the sense of humor, the cultural expectations, having friends and family far away, all weigh down on one regardless of where you are. The first half a year you're in a honeymoon period where it won't be a problem, the second half is where nostalgia hits hard. After that you either have adapted to the situation/feeling, or you're gone back. I highly recommend people live in different countries, it's enriching and eye opening. But it's not what I'd call easy.

[devoutsalsa]

Fair enough. I was focusing more on the procedural aspects of immigrating as come with a special skill. I haven’t really had a truly Dutch living experience yet. All of my coworkers are expats and the center of Amsterdam is largely English speaking. I’ve not yet been exposed to living in a Dutch community.

[rangestransform]

How big of a pay cut did you have to take?

[devoutsalsa]

About 5% to 10% on cash compensation. Some employers in Europe pay better than others.

[_huayra_]

Please read up on the tax implications if you are a US citizen. Unless you move to some place in Europe with low taxes (e.g. certain cantons in Switzerland, but you'd be hard-pressed to find a more difficult country to get a work visa for outside of getting EU citizenship by ancestry), you likely won't end up owing the tax difference as income, but it can be difficult to navigate retirement savings, especially for mandatory systems that don't have a bilateral treaty with the US, wherein the US IRS recognizes the special tax-deferred status of a pension or IRA equivalent.

You will likely be limited to working only with the largest banks, as they're the only ones that are usually willing to file the FinCEN reports back to the US.

I still recommend doing it. Yes, you'll likely take a hit financially (lower salaries, certain consumer items being a lot pricier, a big PITA tax situation), but I think it's worth it to see how it is to live in a place that is much better designed. It's also great to be able to experience how it is to trade off the "grindset mentality" in the US for much better WLB. I literally had colleagues whose OOF messages that said "I'm bikepacking through Norway and will be offline for all of August" meanwhile back in the US, I've had colleagues join conference calls on their phone while recovering from surgery (not because of a lack of PTO, but because unfortunately industry research labs are highly competitive).

Also, it's a good idea to make great efforts to learn the local language or you'll end up in an Anglo bubble and you'll end up feeling like an alien on a foreign planet.

[sersi]

As an alternative, I'd recommend trying to live in places in Asia like Hong Kong or Japan. Walkable cities, relatively low tax rate (but not sure how it works with US citizens tax system), higher salaries than Europe (in the case of Hong Kong, Japan really depends although CS salaries have increased quite a bit lately).

You can also be a digital nomad while living in those places. Japan has a special visa IIRC, with HK you can just use the 3 months tourist visa and do hops to other countries (I know quite a few people who have done that for years)

[lozenge]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned intra company transfer.

You start on the foreign country's website and supplement with community groups eg on Facebook. Average engineer might be fine but you need above average drive to navigate the process.

[ncarroll]

Germany offers an "Opportunity Card" which gives successful applicants a year to live here while looking for a job. This is a new program that just launched in June, 2024 and I have no personal experience with it but, for a country that needs qualified workers, I thought it was a good idea.

https://www.simplegermany.com/opportunity-card-germany/

Good luck!

[buildfocus]

A few countries now have remote work visas (Spain definitely, Portugal too I think). As long as you make good money (any software engineer salary is fine) and it comes from abroad, that'll work to get you in the door. Alternatively you can find an big international company (who will often work in English) with a local office.

In Western Europe at least, English-only in day to day life will be a moderate challenge but not a critical one (many people speak at least basic English, you get good at pointing effectively, you learn essentials much faster than you think), you'll find people & services targeted at expats to solve exactly this problem, you meet many many other foreigners in the same situation, and with a little time you really can learn a language even if you've never done it before (and doing so is genuinely an interesting and meaningful project that many people enjoy).

I moved to Spain with no Spanish. First year or so is tricky but manageable and definitely not boring, and then from there on it's relatively smooth sailing. Quite a few years later now, worked out great, best decision I ever made.

[huimang]

Many places have digital nomad visas, like Estonia for example. https://www.e-resident.gov.ee/nomadvisa/

right now you only speak english, but you can surely allocate some time to start learning the local language. it's long-term marathon, not a sprint.

[lawn]

> How does one move to Europe? Or how does one begin the process? I’m an average engineer and only speak English.

In Sweden at least practically everyone speaks English and it should be common among engineers to mainly speak English (at least that's the case for software engineers).

[hashmush]

Only English is not a problem in Sweden (especially Stockholm), and we hire foreign engineers all the time. Some companies have a majority of foreign born engineers, with a wide range of backgrounds (Brazilian, Russian, Spanish, American, etc.)

Ofc, salary comparisons are hard to make vs. the US, but you can live comfortably on an engineer's salary in Sweden.

Some of the biggest "modern" companies include DICE, Klarna and Spotify. More traditional ones are Ericsson, Scania and Volvo.

Hiring is a bit slow right now though, so that has to be kept in mind.

[Moldoteck]

Engineer and English should be enough to start applying to jobs in countries you like except maybe southern-eastern ones where English is spoken less

[mbs159]

I recommend visiting said countries first, as you are very likely to have a warped understanding of the country, its' people and culture before visiting it. Also, aside from very specific cities, learning the local language is a must in almost everywhere in Europe if you want to live there, so you should keep that in mind.

[GardenLetter27]

Same as moving anywhere - apply to jobs that sponsor visas. It's easier if you can move within your current company too.

> I’m an average engineer and only speak English. Clearly I’m not the type of immigrant counties would love to welcome in.

This helps way less than one would hope. Bureaucracy trumps common sense unfortunately.

[mpreda]

While still abroad, interview and get a job in a big company in a developed country. Afterwards the company will help with relocation, visa, and other paperwork.

[dataflow]

Might help to clarify what you mean by "Europe", it includes everything from London to Moscow...

[usrnm]

And all of those places are very walkable compared to the US

[bloak]

I don't disagree but interestingly Europe may have one city that is less walkable that anywhere in the USA because I saw one list of the world's least walkable cities that started like this: Johannesburg, Patra (Greece), Dallas, Houston, ... and I think the next European city in the list was also in Greece. On the other hand I've heard it claimed that Britain has the least walkable cities in Europe so I don't know.

[dataflow]

Yes, and you think they wouldn't care which one they move to?

[not_your_vase]

If you have no other idea (like reversing the EU->US immigration steps), just born there. It worked for me.