[BobbyJo]

We obviously aren't going to achieve 0 unless we lock every kid on earth up in a padded room, which we aren't doing, so "more" or "less" is fine if the reward is worth the risk. Which is exactly the discussion being had right now.

[watwut]

I am not saying current US tradeoff is necessary ideal. But, when people argue by "human history" they should not ignore what actually happened during that history. Because as of now, kids ARE better off then they generally were for majority of human history.

The gooses thing was memory of my grandmother. It is not some kind of distant medieval history, it was the norm around WWII.

[BobbyJo]

No one here is saying the 1880's are the goal. We're discussing if kids not going outside and messing around and getting hurt sometimes is good or bad.

I brought up "human history" as the logical extreme of the counter argument, not to argue that's the goal.

[watwut]

Right after WWII is not 1880s. It is much closer.

The problem with that logical extreme is that kids died a lot by our standards. They also had no protection against abuse. You had more of them due to non existent anticonception, which made their "value" go down.