| > Do you have proof, also, how these authors are specifically evidenced to be wrong? Where have I said they're wrong? I've been saying the opposite. They're correct. I don't think you've understood what they said; you're misinterpreting the paper if you think they've said something controversial. It just happens that what they are saying isn't very strong evidence that unions have an impact on anything, positive or otherwise. They've found an unassailable correlation - which is what anyone would expect them to find if you look at Fig. 1 in the paper. > Why did you think so earlier? Is it contrary to your current position? General knowledge. I've worked in some union-heavy industries. And no - generally my opinions are fairly stable over any given 24 hour period. :) > What does move the needle over the long term? Investment, capital ownership, education, flexibility. The usual. You'll note that a figure was being thrown around where the premium commanded by union households was present, but that pales compared to the benefits of being in a higher paid industry like software which commands a >2x over median wage. There is a real danger with unions that the union members will end up with a cushy salary relative to non-union members but the industry overall will be pushed elsewhere. Compare that to China which is generating amazing wealth over the last 50 years by relentless capital investment [0]. There isn't a comparison between the ability of commercial enterprise to generate wealth vs the ability of unions to capture a slightly bigger slice of the pie, with great difficulty and to the general detriment of society. > Do you have proof of your position As a postcript, you aren't going to get very far demanding proof in economic discussions. There is scant proof of anything in economics. That is one of the contributing factors to planned economies doing so badly; there is a practical reality where relationships between different parts of the economy have to be felt out in a competitive arena otherwise it is impossible to figure things out. But if there is strong evidence unions help the process someone needs to get past these sort of weak evidence studies and put that on the table. Because this study we're talking about isn't at all compelling. I'd rather not be involved with them based on what I've seen. The best I've seen in their favour is that unions do something between nothing much and entrenching low performers in sinking industries. If the labour organisers had focused on making co-op models of business ownership viable the US would be in a much stronger position. Instead they doubled down on fighting and enabled the rise of China. It was poor strategy with predictable results. [0] If someone could show that the Chinese model of business development depended on strong unions then that'd be some pretty hefty evidence. But given the sweatshop conditions they started with that would be an optomistic prior to hold. |
> Although in fairness I would suspect there probably is a causal element.
> General knowledge. I've worked in some union-heavy industries. And no - generally my opinions are fairly stable over any given 24 hour period. :)
So you do think that unions are causal in their correlation between union membership and inequality?
> Where have I said they're wrong? I've been saying the opposite. They're correct. I don't think you've understood what they said; you're misinterpreting the paper if you think they've said something controversial.
Well, you see, the position they take is actually in their paper... it's from the abstract.
"we find consistent evidence that unions reduce inequality, explaining a significant share of the dramatic fall in inequality between the mid-1930s and late 1940s."
Do you believe they've found consistent evidence that unions reduce inequality, which explains a significant share of the dramatic fall in inequality between the mid-1930s and late 1940s?