[MattPalmer1086]

Absolutely agree people should learn to negotiate well. But comparing apples to oranges isn't a good place to negotiate from.

Employers don't set employee pay at some lower percentage of consultancy pay. And neither do they set consultancy pay as some higher percentage of employee pay. They are distinct markets. You won't get far as an employee if you try to negotiate based on the consultancy pay rate.

[motohagiography]

The statement "you won't get far" appears meant to discourage people from using the most effective negotiating tool available to them and as a threat to the ones who do, which is a pretty standard body shop recruiter hustle.

If the talent you are buying can decide between your job and a consulting gig, you have no separate markets. What absolutely aren't the same things are the negotiating techniques of high value talent vs. low skilled labor.

Employers don't "set" pay either, they are in a market, and if a candidate knows what that company pays for a related service, they can anchor their bid to it. The exception is the minority of collectively bargained jobs.

Sure, if the company is a commodity talent shop or an institution that buys talent by the pound, then there's a race to the bottom to be the most liquid asset you can be for a mature company with limited growth in front of it. If you're actually good at anything and deliver value, consulting rates are one of many leverage data points.

Be extra suspicious of anyone who tells you to take less risk, as it's cheap and not high quality advice.

[MattPalmer1086]

We both agree that negotiating well is a good idea for everyone, whether employee or consultant.

I'm merely saying that negotiating based on a value that doesn't apply to your market will probably not be an effective strategy.

Take all the risk you want, just don't take them based on evidence that doesn't apply to you.

[motohagiography]

that's the crux of the disagreement, convincing people they can't get consulting jobs and are therefore not comparable. it's a gambit that maybe filters for agreeableness at best.

If this were a negotiation between us, and even though I've got other sources of data for framing the discussion, trying to disqualify a comparison with just persistence is a sign of poor faith. I would have walked (and have walked in similar situations) a few comments back. Your BATNA would have been to get the next more agreeable person, my BATNA is based on being able to afford principle, and this market would have settled on someone who delivers value at a level more appropriate to your needs.

[MattPalmer1086]

I have no desire to convince people they can't get consulting jobs. Why would you think that?

I'm only saying that people should negotiate based on data that actually applies to what they're after.

But I'm repeating myself, and I don't understand where you are coming from.