[Jedd]

> I am in particular very skeptical of anything that cannot be piloted or otherwise effectively tested on a smaller scale.

In turn, I'm sceptical of people who say we can't entertain any non-trivial, non-cautionary, non-evolutionary changes to the status quo ... while downplaying the fact that the situation we're in now - 9-5, mon-fri, 20-65yo - was not piloted or effectively tested on a smaller scale before all of us inherited it.

[blfr]

Shift work with fixed time frames was absolutely piloted on tiny scales way back during industrial revolution and evolved from there.

We supposedly even had podcasts to make menial work bearable back in... 1865: https://mashable.com/feature/cigar-factory-lectors

[Jedd]

My point was, and remains, that the current de facto, whatever is considered 'normal' in whichever country you currently reside and work, was not piloted or effectively tested.

You inherited your place in it, and it is therefore normal.

I'll extend my argument to suggest that most HNers are familiar with changes that can not be tested in isolation, simply because they require significant changes to the whole platform. [0]

UBI studies - including the one in TFA - help us work out some of the likely effects, but they are - also as per TFA - always going to be fundamentally flawed studies in the absence of a) guaranteed forever, b) universal, and c) basic coverage.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_day_(computing)

[blfr]

the current de facto, whatever is considered 'normal' in whichever country you currently reside and work, was not piloted or effectively tested

I understand your point and directly disagree with its main part: the move from a family-run farm to a shift-based employment happened before I was born so I did inherit it but it was in fact piloted, tried on small scale, and organic at first.

[rho138]

Nah, they just threw bodies at the problem - shifts be damned. In the US people were working most if not all days of the week. We’re lucky we got where we are now with a 5 day work week brought about by union pressure.

[packetlost]

> We’re lucky we got where we are now with a 5 day work week brought about by union pressure.

This is not backed up by any source I can find. Nearly every source says that the 5 day week was invented by unions in the 1800s, popularized by Henry Ford at the Ford motor company due to measurable improvements to productivity, and made law in the 1930s (in the US) to attempt to counter wide-spread unemployment during the Great Depression. Union pressure is not mentioned anywhere, and honestly doesn't make any sense given that unions were not particularly powerful in those time periods.

[sofixa]

> Union pressure is not mentioned anywhere, and honestly doesn't make any sense given that unions were not particularly powerful in those time periods.

Unions were so powerful in the early 1900s that multiple revolutions occurred in part due to their pressure and actions all around the industrialised world. And the fear of strikes led to many reforms and regulations to take talking points off unions (like Bismarck enacting the first welfare state to be a step ahead of social democrats).

Specifically in the US, look at the Coal Wars and the Battle of Blair Mountain in which the US army fought with aircraft and artillery against striking miners.

[yjftsjthsd-h]

> I'll extend my argument to suggest that most HNers are familiar with changes that can not be tested in isolation, simply because they require significant changes to the whole platform. [0]

Flag days are still tested in a staging environment that represents production as closely as possible, and the overwhelming view of the kind of change you're talking about on a technical level is generally don't do that if you can ever help it.

[fuzzfactor]

This was piloted, only those who first rose to clamor for it were the guinea pigs for years, in place of the previous 6-6, mon-sat, 15-expiration.

Otherwise it couldn't have gotten so popular and we couldn't have inherited it.