Stripe has a history of shutting down legit businesses and blocking payouts of their rightfully earned income, whilst also profiting off those frozen funds by investing it.
Stripe has a history of cutting off payments to businesses which are violating the TOS. Stripe's TOS is largely a result of rules in place by banks and credit card companies. If Stripe don't shut them off, they get shut off.
To the extent they've made errors, I'd like to see you do better. The scale is enormous, there are fraudsters coming at you left and right. It's not an easy game to play.
Two identical business models (software) should either both be supported or both be rejected. They are pretty clearly playing favourites with their VC funded friends.
Stripe is not at any risk of having services cut by payment processors. They can leverage an excellent case against them if so. It's time they and the others get together and dunk on Mastercard before they decide to eat the whole pie.
Have worked in payments for over 25 years. Yes it's complex. But with the charge rates and volume they absolutely can do better. And no my business not violate the ToS. It was considered high risk due to high value of transactions despite exceptional contracts, client signoff forms etc.
Then time for them to group up and change the game. Not going to make excuses for corps. It's their responsibility to push, not mine to apologize for them.
The number one justification for cryptocurrency in my book, even if it's less safe or convenient or even has small fees. Your business being subject to the whims of payment processors is ludicrous.
Even with this being the justification, they could just say they won't be working with the customer in the future, not literally steal their customer's already earned money.
All you're doing is moving the risk from the business to the consumer with crypto which is why it will never succeed. Consumers like all the things businesses hate about credit cards because they can get their money back if something goes wrong and when it comes to payments the customer decides who wins.
Well said. We've offered for many years to our customers to pay by CC, bank transfer or Bitcoin. Exactly 0 people wanted to pay by Bitcoin, while the other two options are at about 50/50.
> All you're doing is moving the risk from the business to the consumer
No, most of the merchant's risk with credit cards is from the design of credit cards. You have to give your payment info to every merchant but if any one of them loses it then anyone who gets it can use it at any other merchant. Then some merchant you've never heard of has bad security, criminals get cards from there and use them to buy things from honest merchants and the honest merchants get chargebacks for having done nothing wrong.
Cryptocurrency does not have this problem because you don't have to give your private keys to everyone you pay and even if you fail to protect them yourself (something you, rather than someone else, is in control of), as long as you're not trying to use cryptocurrency as a store of value instead of a payment system, your losses are limited to the e.g. $20 you had in your wallet. Customers have no problem with systems that work like this, like cash.
Chargebacks are only an issue if the customer expects the merchant to be dishonest and the value of the purchase is large. If you pay $3 for something and get ripped off, the ability to do a chargeback isn't that relevant to your life and you're just not going to patronize them anymore.
The reason most customers don't use cryptocurrency is that the government made it high friction for ordinary people to buy it. "Why is this website I don't know asking for my social security number? I'm just trying to make a small purchase."
Presumably at the behest of the existing payments industry which wants to keep their vig.
LOL. Being able to reverse transactions and freeze funds is a feature not a bug. With crypto you have no recourse when a criminal does criminal things or you make a mistake. Ransomware only started being a thing thanks to crypto, but governments could easily ban it (serious governments like US, China, Germany, that is)
Crypto is useless for anyone but criminals. If you can't use the real, state controlled financial system, then you also can't use the real, state controlled property rights system. Who cares about being able to prove you own some bits if you are not protected by the law when you buy any actual tangible goods with those bits, like a house or a car or a business?
Crypto is only useful when it's not needed (ie, you can use the state to enforce your physical property rights) and becomes useless once it's needed (you live in a corrupt or anarchist state that won't enforce your property rights over anything you can actually buy with the crypto)
Crypto is becoming a form of government blind-eye-turned corruption, for carrying out corrupt financial practices with less immediate oversight and more ways to overcomplicate the logistics. It will probably cause a financial crisis one day, like in 2008, for the exact same reason complex derivatives did.
I never take crypto jobs so my resume will stay clean when the house of cards falls down.
Instead you should advocate for payment network neutrality. Visa and MasterCard should be required by US law not to discriminate against transactions, and enforcement should move from the private sector to, well, law enforcement. Like with ACH/FedNow. That might actually get us somewhere productive.
Current-generation blockchain networks also don’t seek to do what “traditional finance” does. The usual list of things that crypto enthusiasts point to tends to be mostly comprised of things that consumers actually want. The entire premise is different. Apples and oranges.
> Stripe has a history of shutting down legit businesses and blocking payouts of their rightfully earned income, whilst also profiting off those frozen funds by investing it.
Almost every case I've seen, it's almost always because they were dabbling with NSFW, Cannabis, or another card-network-restricted category. And when you confront them about their story, they almost always respond with weasel wording: "It wasn't really NSFW, or it was only a little NSFW, or it's not my responsibility if my users use it for NSFW..."
It's also not like this is buried in the Terms of Service with ambiguous legalese. Stripe has a pretty beautifully-formatted page clearly saying what they are not OK with.
As someone that isn’t working in payment processing, it’s no surprise that you don’t get all of it.
Every single thing about these lists always reeks of ‘this has been put together reactively, over time, based on experience’. But it’s so cool and trendy and complain about this stuff on HN and similar, everyone just elects to forego critical thinking for a little bit.
I mean, OK, but by the time it's called VAT in their universe they're already treating you as 'overseas' and your total payment processor fee is pushing 10% because "not in the US" apparently carries a 100% surcharge
Also wondering this. I was planning on making the jump to LS soon but if Stripe will be offering MoR services then I'd rather stay within Stripe's stack.
I suspect (hope) Stripe Tax will soon offer a MoR service. I imagine this acquisition is mostly for their tax expertise & perhaps internal tools that do all the hard work behind the scenes.
Stripe is a payment processor which basically means they process the payments for you, so you do have to figure out the tax part yourself (or use their tax product, but you're still the one responsible for it.)
Lemon Squeezy is a merchant of record which means _they_ act as the merchant and sell the product to your customer. So they'll collect VAT and make sure it lands in the pockets of the right country etc. and will pay you only the remainder (minus their cut).
Since Lemon Squeezy uses Stripe under the hood as their payment processor you had to basically pay a cut to two companies if you used Lemon Squeezy but in exchange you literally have to worry about nothing. You just get a nice B2B reverse invoice and don't have to break your head around world wide (and especially EU) tax laws.
I really hope Stripe will double down on the whole MoR thing, it makes processing payments online so much nicer and less annoying.