[mindcrime]

Feh, just be honest with people. If they get defensive, they get defensive, so what?

I'd love to hear you tell me "I just don't think you have what it takes," as that's just going to pour fuel on my fire and motivate me to work that much harder just to spite you.

I love negative feedback like that... fuck all ya'll, because when I'm running a billion dollar company and rocking up to your shitty office in my Maserati to ask "how's it going?" I'll be laughing to myself at how pathetic and stupid you were to doubt me.

[sgrove]

And this is a perfect reason why it'll never happen.

What does the other side gain from telling you the truth and burning bridges like this? Best to give a vague, non-committal reason so there's always a chance they can talk with you again in the future.

Investors (to take one example) are fallible and scared. They're driven by fear, and by greed - fear that they might miss out on the next facebook (it'll go on their public record, usually, because of what you're proposing), and greed at the upsides are if they can get in before others on the next facebook.

Notice I didn't say "before anyone else." That's best, but barring that, you want to be able to get in later because you have a good relationship with the founder. And touchy founders that would be vindictive about being rejected are tough to keep a good relationship with, and most entrepreneurs are emotionally heavily invested in their own startup so it's easy to be touchy and vindictive, so it's "best" as an investor to not upset anyone.

"best" is in quotes because this is a trend that might slowly be changing, in large part because of the pressure from groups like YC.

[mindcrime]

Oh, no, no, no... at least in my case, I certainly didn't mean to imply that I'd take any bridges as having been burned. When I say "fuck ya'll" I mean that in the best possible way... I want to have that chip on my shoulder, I'd take it as them having done me a favor if somebody tells me that they think I can't hack it. I feed off that shit.

Best to give a vague, non-committal reason so there's always a chance they can talk with you again in the future.

I'd talk to the OP again, after I make it bigtime and roll up in the Maserati, with a 6' tall, red-headed supermodel with a Scottish accent on my arm... and I'd say "fuck you, dude" and then buy a round of beers and sit back and laugh about the whole thing.

Of course, that's just me... :-)

[EREFUNDO]

Damn I feed off that shit too! What I noticed about myself is that I would try so much harder when people tell me I can't do it, I am hell bent on proving them wrong. The problem is that much of my life people have been nice to me......I need more assholes in my life....LOL

[mindcrime]

On a (semi)-related note:

http://www.quora.com/How-can-I-go-about-acquiring-a-worthy-o...

Need a nemesis or arch-rival? Here ya go... Quora on how to find one. :-)

[EREFUNDO]

Epic article.....thanks!

[sopooneo]

At a high level I feel like we should be no more influence by those who say we're right than wrong. In a way, being driven to prove people wrong is being controlled by them. Because sometimes they may be correct, and our best bet would be to change strategies, and sticking to our guns just to prove them wrong will hold us back.

[EREFUNDO]

I agree. At the end of the day you still have to be pragmatic and intellectually honest to yourself. But if the critique is coming from someone who only heard your concept for the first time or that he/she has no domain expertise in the industry you're trying to get into then you should not accept it too easily. There is always a fine line between being stubborn and having dogged determination.....

[noduerme]

You're like me...and a lot of guys here. We fucking hate it when idiots in stupid yellow visors pretend they can judge our character. When they take time and appreciate the things we create, and admit they don't have the wherewithal to judge us from where they're sitting -- whether or not they send investment our way -- that's at least acknowledging that our 10,000 hours registered somewhere and they don't think they're smarter or better than us just because they control the purse-strings of some VCist.

For a lot of us, and I can't speak for you, recognition of our effort is much more important than money. What totally aggravates me about this guy is that he thinks he's qualified to attack people who have done much more than he ever has, based solely on what he perceives as their ability to drive a business. And he has this luxury because he sucked someone's dick or was born to a rich old doctor somewhere, or both. And people who've worked hard to make things are supposed to listen to this bullshit. That's what pisses me off.

[heretohelp]

You write and think like a cocky 13 year old.

[joering2]

But yet you couldn't even check basic facts like this guy has karma above 3,800 for over 4 years, +500 linkedin connections, tons of software engineering experience, and 19 job recommendations [1].

Sure; he writes and thinks like a kid. Let me ignore him!

[1] http://phillip.onlinked.in/

[jbooth]

Quote: " I'd talk to the OP again, after I make it bigtime and roll up in the Maserati, with a 6' tall, red-headed supermodel with a Scottish accent on my arm... and I'd say "fuck you, dude" and then buy a round of beers and sit back and laugh about the whole thing."

He might be a professional success but based on this sample size, yeah, writes and thinks like a cocky 13yo until proven otherwise. No offense intended to anyone, of course.

Maybe it was satire.

[3pt14159]

You have no idea how common this method of thinking is, even by successful startup founders. Granted, most are more concerned about building a product people love, but some people thrive on proving people wrong, and that drives them to success.

[mdda]

But isn't the poster explicitly demanding raw feedback? And isn't the article just pointing out that people get defensive when faced with raw feedback?

Your comment (although you're not the poster in question) kind of demonstrates the problem facing the VC author of the article.

[mindcrime]

Thanks, but this isn't really about me. I'm just sharing one person's (almost certainly not unique) attitude towards dealing with negative feedback / rejection.

[heretohelp]

I don't really have time to research everybody on HN.

Especially people who write like a cocky 13 year old.

N.B. This is far from my first account. Also, bringing out the 'tenure' argument is pretty old/lame. I was seeing that crap on Usenet and EFNet over a decade ago. Grow up.

People are accountable for what they do and say regardless of their track-record.

P.S. What makes it even funnier is that he's a consultant and he's only living up to the stereotype of greedy consultants. Outrageously comical.

[carsongross]

I agree with the honesty part, but if you are basing your self-worth on the ability to roll up on someone in a Maserati...

I'm not much of a Rand guy, but I think Roark's response is the best: "But I don’t think of you."

[mindcrime]

I agree with the honesty part, but if you are basing your self-worth on the ability to roll up on someone in a Maserati...

Of course I'm being partially facetious here. The point is to take negative feedback as a challenge and use it as motivation.

I'm not much of a Rand guy, but I think Roark's response is the best: "But I don’t think of you."

Yeah, ya know, I was just watching The Fountainhead again last week and that scene really jumped out at me. I do admire that outlook, but I also find value in choosing to use doubters doubts as motivation. I know it seems contradictory but it works for me.

[jbreinlinger]

btw, I love being proven wrong as well.

It gives me incredibly important data. I always reflect on past decisions, good and bad. It helps minimize the bad ones and maximize the good ones.

[mindcrime]

Heh... hopefully you got the spirit of my reply, unlike some people in this thread.

[tomjen3]

That is properly why YCs rejection letter are so nice. Otherwise too many people would get that bit of extra fuck you moral boost (and as PG keeps pointing, start ups are run on morale).

[Jitle]

This response perfectly demonstrates the need to lie as stated in the article. As an investor, you say "no" A LOT. I can't have the 99% of people I talk to walking away with an attitude.

I received the introduction to one of our best investments from a CEO we said no to. Do you think that CEO would have made the introduction if I had told him he doesn't have what it takes to be a founder at a VC backed startup?

[mindcrime]

Do you think that CEO would have made the introduction if I had told him he doesn't have what it takes to be a founder at a VC backed startup?

Maybe, who's to say?

[rexreed]

How many times a day do you think successful startup founders hear "no" and get on with it?

How many times a day do you think successful startup founders say "no"?

A lot.

Learn to be successful. Say no and learn to accept no.

It's surprising how dishonesty permeates the financial services industries (of which venture capital is one).

[kposehn]

> rocking up to your office in my Maserati

This only works if you're in a white MC Stradale with gunmetal wheels.

;)

[moron]

Telling people like you your faults is like talking to a brick wall. Why bother? I don't blame them for lying.