[alistairSH]

Comparing raw times isn’t accurate. The technology has improved Massively since Armstrong. Aero, weight, tire design, disc brakes (descending, wet).

And the training is just as drastically improved. Nutrition dialed to the individual, seven days/week. Power meters are ubiquitous. No more “go ride 5 hours with your roommate” for a Saturday training ride - it’s all planned all the time.

This has all happened since Pog was a small child.

[deng]

Your reasoning is really funny because that's exactly how all the EPO/blood dopers explained their drastically improved performance 20 years ago. Do you seriously believe that Armstrong didn't have individual nutrition and just drove aimlessly 5 hours a day without power meters? You make it sound like he just ate 10 raw eggs with a bottle of red wine before racing like it's 1924.

Feel free to believe that nutrition, material, aero etc. will give you a 10% improvement over the most doped people in the history of cycling, especially on the final climb on plateau de beille, with incredible heat, headwind and after four cat1 climbs. Watch how Pogacar casually drives freehandedly, grabbing a bottle while Vingegaard pushes the fastest climb ever recorded, pulverizing Pantani's record, and seriously tell me this is because he had better breakfast.

[timeon]

> Watch how Pogacar casually drives freehandedly, grabbing a bottle while Vingegaard pushes the fastest climb ever recorded

This was the moment when I stopped watching. I like Pogačar and there is no way for rider to rebut all the accusations even the rider really is clean. But it doesn't help that he is riding under people who were doping and managing teams with doping scandals.

[alistairSH]

It’s been 20 years since LA “won” the Tour. Do I think the sport has advanced much since these guys raced… https://cycling-passion.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/marco...

Absolutely, I do. The bikes are more aero. The position on the bikes is different - Pog rarely gets out of the saddle on climbs, where LA and Pantani were often slogging out of the saddle. The training plans and nutrition are absolutely superior.

Does any of this mean Pog or Jonas are clean? No. We don’t know either way. All I do know is the anti-doping program is one of the strictest in sports. If people still dope, there’s not much we can do about it. Regardless, I‘ll continue to enjoy cycling as entertainment - there’s no higher meaning to sports - it’s all for fun.

[deng]

Pog rides like Indurain, staying in the saddle and just punching the watts, that's nothing new. Ullrich adhered to that style and was handily beaten by Armstrong, because Ullrich couldn't match Armstrong's intermediate sprints out of the saddle. Maybe Ullrich's style is actually superior and Armstrong simply had the better juice, we'll never know.

These are just stylistic issues which might bring you a percent or two. The 10% we are seeing now is a world of difference on that level, especially because Pog simply exploded this year, beating both Giro and Tour without much trouble. I also heavily disagree with entertainment being the highest meaning of sports, because then I guess we would just all watch WWE or Peter Thiel's mutant games, but that's a topic for another day.