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by eamsen 703 days ago
Value production is needed, because the value we produce is fleeting and healthy societies grow.

How much value is needed is determined by the society through a free market.

1 comments

How much value can a disabled veteran provide to the free market? If that value is zero, should they just lay down and die?

What if they're not a veteran, but just an unfortunate soul with a disability that provides "zero" value?

> How much value can a disabled veteran provide to the free market? If that value is zero, should they just lay down and die?

If you do this you stop getting new veterans. Functionally speaking this is why every society with armies has veteran benefits.

I agree, and I think there are more nuanced and meaningful historical and especially modern reasons we encourage veterans to turn swords to ploughshares.

It’s reasonable to assume that the powers that be may find themselves in situations politically precarious if veterans aren’t able to provide for themselves and those they ostensibly fought for. Veterans know where real and metaphorical bodies are buried, they also know that at a nation scale, the internal problems that face first world nations are usually not logistical, but political. If not for fear of disrupting business interests, UBI in the form of food stamps, housing, and Medicare for all is possible. The veterans know this, because they are fed and housed and medically treated at scale during and after service. However, if everyone receives these same benefits also without service obligations, the ability to offer incentives to service is limited.

UBI is a thorny issue due to the complexities of implementing it piecemeal alongside the already-existing status quo. In some ways, a greenfield solution would be easier, but they call those revolutionary changes revolutions rather than evolutions for good reasons.

Some stray links for food for thought:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swords_to_ploughshares

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

> there are more nuanced and meaningful historical and especially modern reasons we encourage veterans to turn swords to ploughshares

Oh, I always thought it was a reference to the Roman practice of settling veterans on farmsteads [1].

> if everyone receives these same benefits also without service obligations, the ability to offer incentives to service is limited

I'm not sure we could offer VA benefits to every adult without massively raising taxes. (Also, we treat our veterans quite poorly.)

[1] https://www.jstor.org/stable/41342861

Citizenship and a form of retirement through service is a time-honored military tradition, it’s true.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38586918

> I'm not sure we could offer VA benefits to every adult without massively raising taxes.

If we eliminated waste and slippage/loss and gained efficiencies of scale by eliminating private health insurance obligations except for high net worth, like is done in some countries like Australia, I think we could come out ahead actually, due to reducing the cost of employment borne by businesses, while maintaining or increasing health outcomes for those on public healthcare rolls.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(Australia)

> (Also, we treat our veterans quite poorly.)

To our great collective shame. That being a veteran is essentially a greater risk factor for peacetime structural violence in the form of homelessness, food insecurity, and lack of health care is a travesty only eclipsed by the how commonplace these issues are among fellow countrymen who are merely civilians.

What is this grand democratic experiment even for, if we still suffer from the same failure modes as that which we originally fought to save ourselves from?

> What is this grand democratic experiment even for, if we still suffer from the same failure modes as that which we originally fought to save ourselves from?

We treat our veterans poorly, but let’s not lose perspective, that’s still far better than most countries today or in history.

I’ve worked with organizations that employ people whose physical or mental condition makes it difficult to obtain/maintain a typical job. In all likelihood the type of work performed (stuffing event participant packets) was a net negative in a small view of value. The folks there seemed pretty happy to do what they did in a supportive setting with other folks who had similar life circumstances. That leads me to believe that there were larger value-concepts at play than what a cash amount can enumerate.

The value that any person can create is principally limited by imagination, not the free market. The wonderful thing about a moderately regulated free market is that the imagination of more people can be used to engage the value creation inherent in every person.

A healthy society produces surplus to provide for those who depend on others. To ensure enough surplus, everyone who is able, should add value.