[kevincox]

They aren't over windows. They continue to be incredibly interested in and actively developing how much money they can suck from their users. Especially via various forms of ads.

But yeah, kernel features are few and far between.

[queuebert]

I believe the term you are looking for is "rent seeking". Other than visual changes, what new functionality does Windows 11 actually have that Windows XP didn't have? (I'm being generous with XP, because actually 95 was already mostly internet ready.) Yet how many times have many of us paid for a Windows license on a new computer or because the old version stopped getting updates?

[pcwalton]

> Other than visual changes, what new functionality does Windows 11 actually have that Windows XP didn't have?

Off the top of my head, limiting myself to just NT kernel stuff: WSL and Hyper-V, pseudo-terminals, condvars, WDDM, DWM, elevated privilege programs on the same desktop, font driver isolation, and limiting access to win32k for sandboxing.

[recursive]

> what new functionality does Windows 11 actually have that Windows XP didn't have? (

Off the top of my head, built-in bluetooth support, an OS-level volume mixer, and more support for a wider variety of class-compliant devices. I'm sure there are a lot more, and if you actually care about the answer, I don't think it would be hard to find.

[queuebert]

All of this could've been added to XP, right?

[recursive]

I don't know.

If it could, Then XP would just be Windows 11. What's the objection here.

[queuebert]

Simple patches/upgrades vs tricking people into thinking you've made a whole new piece of software. Linux, BSD, and Apple roll out OS upgrades with new functionality without charging for the new versions.

[recursive]

That's one perspective I suppose. I have a MacBook on my desk at work solely for testing in Safari. I can no longer use it for that purpose because it won't even let me upgrade the OS. That sounds like a whole new piece of software to me. Windows actually has been substantially re-written. I guess MacOS has also? It seems more honest to me call it a different product.

Not that I strongly care much one way or another.

[psd1]

Longhorn was a significant rewrite, actually. The two big upheavals in windows history were: 2000, which essentially scrapped the 95 lineage in favour of NT; and Vista, which kicked a lot of 3rd-party crap out of the kernel and added a quality gate for drivers.

[umanwizard]

The Win95 lineage still existed, in the form of Windows ME, alongside 2000. XP is when they got rid of it and unified the two product lines.

[vitus]

> Other than visual changes, what new functionality does Windows 11 actually have that Windows XP didn't have?

Modern crypto ciphersuites that aren't utterly broken? Your best options for symmetric crypto with XP are 3DES (officially retired by NIST as of this year) and RC4 (prohibited in TLS as of RFC 7465).

(And if you think 3DES isn't totally broken by itself, you're right... except for the part where the ciphersuite in question is in CBC mode and is vulnerable to BEAST. Thanks, mandated ciphersuites.)

[wolrah]

> Other than visual changes, what new functionality does Windows 11 actually have that Windows XP didn't have?

XP->Vista alone brought a bunch of huge changes that massively improved security (UAC), capability (64 bit desktops), and future-proofing (UEFI) among many many other things.

Some helpful Wikipedia editors have answered this question in excessive detail, so I'm just going to link those for more info. Also I'm going to start with what XP changed from 2003 both because it makes a good comparison and I'd argue 2000/NT 5.0 is the root of the modern Windows era. Your next sentence after the quote implies you probably won't have a problem with that.

* XP/2003: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_XP

* 2003R2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server_2003#Windows_Se...

* Vista: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_Vista

* 2008: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server_2008#Features

* 7: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_7

* 2008R2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server_2008_R2#New_fea...

* 8: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_8

* 2012: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server_2012#Features

* 8.1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_8.1#New_and_changed_fe...

* 2012R2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server_2012_R2#Feature...

* 10: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_10

* 2016: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server_2016#Features

* 2019: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server_2019#Features

* 2022: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server_2022#Features

* 11: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_11

* 2025: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/get-started...

Obviously some of this will be "fluff" and that's up to your own personal definitions, but to act like there haven't been significant changes in every major revision is just nonsense.

[queuebert]

Well that Windows 11 article is laughably short, considering it's a major version. But I appreciate you taking the time to compile all those links.

My point is the vast majority of this stuff is either "fluff" or cosmetic changes or random things that 99% of users don't use OR they are security and bug patches. HN users are not typical, so I'm sure some of the Windows updates are very important for people like us.

Maybe to Microsoft this is a significant rewrite: "The Calculator has been completely rewritten in C# and includes several new features." (Just picked at random.) Ok, but like why? Who cares? What was wrong with the last calculator? Absolutely nothing. Also who even uses Windows calculator instead of Excel or their phone? Was calculator rewritten to justify an FTE somewhere at Microsoft?

I'm not trying to troll, but I am trying to be contrarian. I honestly feel like a majority of desktop users don't really think too hard about their OS. None of the existing OSes should be significantly rewritten unless they are just completely flawed. Like say Apple decides to ditch the microkernel or Linux goes to Rust. Most people need stability and security, not new calculator features or different button shading. I'm singling out Microsoft for being the only one that rent seeks for superfluous changes. Apple is notoriously bad about wasting users time with constant updates for dumb stuff, but at least it's free, except for the cost of time while your computer slowly reboots and updates.

[rob74]

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash_cow