[simon_o]

This.

The harmful decisions Rust made highlight its ingrained culture of doubling down on previous mistakes at all costs.

There seems to be no reevaluation of the cost/benefit ratio once the "preferred approach" turns out to be non-viable.

"We want to have feature X, consequences be damned" is rarely a winning move in language design.

[redman25]

I think he's talking about OS threads... it has nothing to do with rust's decisions.

[simon_o]

It has everything to do with Rust's decisions.

[TwentyPosts]

Talking about a "decision" only makes sense if there's a reasonable alternative.

Do you think "actually fixing" OS threads was a reasonable alternative? What would you prefer for a high performance abstraction instead of async?

[simon_o]

I think there are some lessons that can be learned from Java's virtual thread approach – note that there is a huge gap in requirements and design trade-offs, especially around embedded, when compared to Rust.

I'd just wager that the effort of getting something like that into shape is smaller than the costs of async/await.

(And no, Rust's playing with green threads once 15 years ago and failing due to quality-of-implementation issues is not an excuse to dismiss everything that came after it off the bat.)

Though it's probably not worth discussing this whole topic with Rust fans currently:

Many made async/await part of their personality and have little experience to offer besides breathlessly pointing to one of the half dozen blog articles trying to defend async/await.

It will take a few years until that language feature runs through all stages of grief and one can have an adult discussion about it.

[api]

True but I didn't just mean Rust... I meant virtually all async coding as a pattern.

[simon_o]

Agreed, it's just that in Rust async/await hurts more than in e. g. JavaScript where the browser gives you enough hooks to have a "fresh start with(out) async".

[withoutboats3]

[flagged]

[CyberDildonics]

Is it 'despicable' just because you don't like what it says? You didn't do anything to refute it.

[withoutboats3]

I've written thousands of words on my blog about the design of async Rust, in which I carefully explain every decision and discuss the strong and weak points. This person regularly post rude low-effort comments like this one. My body of work should be enough to refute the idea that all I'm doing is doubling down.

[CyberDildonics]

This person regularly post rude low-effort comments

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41034778

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41004954

My body of work should be enough

This is a separate discussion, maybe you can put some of that body of work here.

[withoutboats3]

This is literally a thread about a post on my blog. If you can’t find my body of work, I cannot help you.

[CyberDildonics]

It's not about me finding anything, I'm saying that your expectations probably need to be adjusted. It seems like you thought you would post a one word title and have everyone just post compliments with no questions.

[simon_o]

Some Rust people just have to be that dramatic.