[np-]

I’m always deeply uncomfortable with this argument. It sounds like justification for a “slave” class to do undesirable jobs with no legal protections and sub minimum wage, just so Americans can save a few bucks at the supermarket. But at what moral cost? We can’t have it both ways—if they’re here working, then it needs to be at full American wage with full American regulation/oversight. But that itself defeats the purpose of hiring undocumented workers.

[kjkjadksj]

Part of what perpetuates this sort of thing is a general idea in society that one can’t do or learn something because that’s not possible for them. I’m of the opinion that if sufficiently motivated and with sufficient constraints removed, anyone can learn and do anything. The only difference between an engineer and someone breaking their back for work is that the engineer was probably coddled from birth into being told they can do anything including engineering. Not as a pipe dream but a clear path: take these classes, apply to this college, take this internship, take this job.

Meanwhile the laborer was probably told all their life they don’t have what it takes, either explicitly or not, and that thinking held them back their entire life. Why try hard in school if I am “not smart”? Why try and go to college if I can’t pay for it? Why not just do what my neighbor or my uncle does that I know is possible? Many people need to be reminded that everything is possible if they aren’t dissuaded by unhelpful ideas or people.

[A4ET8a8uTh0]

<< I’m of the opinion that if sufficiently motivated and with sufficient constraints removed, anyone can learn and do anything.

Anyone can do anything if they believe enough..

It is a nice sentiment and I cling to it myself more often than not, because there is something soothing about it. The unfortunate reality, however, is that being forced onto thing for which I have no predisposition, is, uhh, counterproductive at best.

In short, I disagree with pre-supposition that your position requires ( we are all amorphous blobs that can be molded into whatever with sufficient amount of force ). And that is before we get to the question of whether it is even worthwhile to teach a kid with down syndrome calculus? Not possible. Worthwhile.

<< Many people need to be reminded that everything is possible if they aren’t dissuaded by unhelpful ideas or people.

No. People need to understand themselves. They need to experience their limits and then cater to their strengths and weaknesses accordingly. It is unhelpful to think that billions people on this planet are interchangeable cogs. We are not.

I am extremely unlikely to ever be like Georgi Gerganov. I simply do not believe I have the brain capacity needed.

It is fine to aspire, but I am not changing the world tomorrow.

[ahartmetz]

If you believe that anyone can do anything, you have never done something properly difficult and watched yourself and / or others fail despite trying hard.

Inappropriate dissuasion surely exists, but you don't help your case by making such claims.

[mrsalt]

Why is it uncomfortable? It is the reality, and no one important wants to change it.

There are plenty of immigrants working under the table. And there are plenty of employers willing to hire them.

We do have it both ways.

[Barrin92]

>It sounds like justification for a “slave” class to do undesirable jobs

It's the exact opposite. The slavery is being trapped in Cuba which the person decided to leave by their own free will to make it to America, where working a terrible factory job is going to make them ten times richer than they would have been otherwise.

Is you being uncomfortable with this idea actually more important than giving that person a shot to work himself to a normal American life within two decades and certainly for their kids?