[epgui]

Clojure is probably the most beautiful language I've ever worked with. Nothing is perfect, but Clojure is very simple and elegant.

[7thaccount]

Only downside is I don't know Java, so some things that should be obvious are opaque to me.

[epgui]

You really don’t need to know any java. I don’t know java either.

Even if you’re doing java interop, it’s quite easy to figure it out.

[7thaccount]

Last time I looked about file IO it involves calling out to some Java class that I had no clue about as I don't use Java. All the doc of the time just assumed you should be able to figure this all out.

Edit: it's been like 5 years

[fulafel]

The docs are better now (eg https://clojure-doc.org/articles/cookbooks/files_and_directo... ) but you still need to follow a Javadoc link every now and then for the full story.

Alternatively you can use a library such as https://github.com/babashka/fs .

I agree with the GP that you don't need to know any Java.

[andrewflnr]

This was my experience too, at about the same time. I should really dig back into it at some point.

[xyproto]

Java frolicks in opaqueness.

[xigoi]

What makes Clojure a non-starter for me is that it runs on the JVM.

[harperlee]

Could you expand why? It's not immediately obvious why would that be, my understanding is that the general consensus around here is that the JVM is a superb piece of tech with a bad rap due to java the language.

[xigoi]

Slow startup, huge memory consumption, design that inherently favors class-based languages like Java, the frequent need to use Java libraries.

[epgui]

> Slow startup

This makes the jvm a bit less suitable for programmes with short lifetimes (like lambdas), depending on how sensitive startup times are in context... But is mostly irrelevant in long-lived applications like services.

> design that inherently favors class-based languages like Java

Clojure abstracts over this so well that it's really a non-issue for a wide array of use cases / applications. When programming in Clojure, you really don't have to think about objects and classes at all, unless you really insist on doing so.

> frequent need to use Java libraries

This would be going against the grain: you will have a much better time by staying within native Clojure. I've worked on commercial/production applications that barely had any java interop, and whatever java interop there was was rarely ever involved in day to day work.

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Disclaimer: I also am not a huge fan of the JVM and I really dislike the Java world generally, but it never stood in the way of me getting stuff done with Clojure.