[nostrebored]

That’s a matter of perspective.

Allowing your kids in-pocket access to adversarial forms of entertainment, each competing to maximize time on platform, seems like a riskier bet to me. The experiment is forced. We’re all a part of this brave new world.

Most people against device use that I’ve talked to have a distinction between consumption and creation. Writing a blog is a creative activity. Consuming TikTok is not, even if you are a “creator” on the platform. Kids are not responsible enough to care about the difference or think about the long term impacts.

[dnpp123]

> We’re all a part of this brave new world.

And instead of teaching your kids to live in this world you're trying to create a world for them which does not exist anymore.

> distinction between consumption and creation

You can not become a creator if you are not a consumer first.

> Kids are not responsible enough to care about the difference or think about the long term impacts.

That's where your role as a parent comes in handy - teach them with the best of your abilities, don't give up on them.

[nostrebored]

Thankfully learning how to use these tools is easy. It’s made to be. There are teams of people focused on making it as easy to use as possible.

Much like you don’t need to have any experience with computers to become a programmer, you don’t need experience with TikTok to swipe or messenger to text.

But avoiding making these behaviors entrenched from a young age is important. I suspect that like starting to drink young had bad average outcomes, so does having a phone, social media, etc.

So far the data seems to pan out. Time will tell. But at this point there’s mainly intuition and critical thought. Mine has led me here and yours has led you somewhere else.

I’m not going to judge you for it. I just don’t agree with you.

[dnpp123]

> I suspect that like starting to drink young had bad average outcomes

That's a good analogy. In my experience, most alcoholics/gamblers/dangerous substance abusers never had parents which taught them how to deal with a given addiction - they just brush off the subject strictly forbidding their kids to do any of them.

[ndriscoll]

That world does still exist though: just don't engage with those platforms. If everyone were on heroin all the time, it doesn't mean you can't exist in the world without doing heroin yourself. You can just... not do it.

My 3 year old daughter picks up my guitar and strums it and makes up a song about not wanting to do bed time. She doesn't need exposure to consumer culture to create; it's innate. In fact she's already got some Wesley Willis vibes going without ever having heard him.

[dnpp123]

> You can just... not do it.

Sure you can keep your kids away in a farm away from any human interactions too. Or in a basement if you live in a city.

> it's innate

Playing guitar is innate to your 3 year old daughter? Hope one day I'll listen to her album with chords & rhythms no one has ever heard before! /s

[ndriscoll]

She goes to parks, library story hour, gymnastics, soccer, and pre-school/playgroup. None of it involves Meta/X/TikTok/Google, and all of them have other kids. People still do things in the real world. I see older kids in some of those places too. I suspect that doing things has a natural tendency to select yourself into a social group that does things. Want to not be part of crowd that sits in a room shooting up? Go outside and you'll find your like-minded group.

Obviously she's not going to go through life having never heard any music, but I don't think you'd really need to hear someone else to be able to walk up to a piano, press some keys (perhaps even simultaneously), and think "hey, that sounds nice". It's pretty easy to discover a bunch of chords by accident. Rhythm is even easier to make up your own thing. Whether no one has ever heard it is irrelevant to whether you need to have heard someone else to make it up.

She doesn't need to make an album for you. She can create for her and for us. You and the people in your life can create for you. That's kind of the point of not buying into consumer culture.

[dnpp123]

A piano which has keys ordered in a certain order influences any creation process.

Nobody exists in a vacuum, we're all consumers of the culture which surrounds us. I think you're confusing consumption and mass consumption.

[ndriscoll]

Okay, but modern "social" media is designed to do nothing but funnel you into mass consumption, both on that platform and in the sense of pushing products on you to buy (their actual goal). They are not centered around enabling you to share with your friends, family, and community. They're an entirely vacuous experience, and you don't need them (indeed, you'd probably benefit from not interacting with them) to be creative or social.