[cthalupa]

My qualifications for saying "I don't believe there are any known effects that match that" is... reading quite a lot of clinical research on their usage, and not having seen anything that would match those effects. You'll notice I qualified that statement in two ways - both that it is limited to my personal understanding and that of 'known' effects.

I'm not really sure what you're arguing - neither of these links indicate otherwise. Are you familiar with the null hypothesis? Unless we have evidence of something being the case, why would we think it would be the case?

We also have decades of anecdotal reports on usage of psilocybin and psilocin containing mushrooms and I'm also not aware of any significant evidence from that that such an effect is even remotely common - it's the first I've ever encountered that sort of story about persistent headaches for multiple weeks following their usage.

[newzisforsukas]

It seemed to me that you were downplaying this person's experience and were suggesting that they were possibly given other substances.

> neither of these links indicate otherwise

The articles I provided were to back my own statements that I made, not to refute yours, and I am not sure how that wasn't clear.

> I'm not really sure what you're arguing

I am saying that there really isn't a large enough body of scientific evidence yet to conclude definitively that there are no possible mechanisms that could cause this effect, as you stated. Humans aren't uniform systems.

> Are you familiar with the null hypothesis?

Yeah.

> it's the first I've ever encountered that sort of story about persistent headaches for multiple weeks following their usage.

HPPD comes to mind, serotonin syndrome, all sorts of possibilities that do not necessitate it being caused by another substance.

[cthalupa]

> It seemed to me that you were downplaying this person's experience

I'm not.

> were suggesting that they were possibly given other substances.

I am. There are a lot of people buying mislabeled products thinking they are ingesting chocolate made out of mushrooms that, in fact, are not. There are also people who sell other mushrooms, such as amanita muscaria, as your garden variety magic mushrooms. (I'm not aware of anything that would cause this with it, either, but it's got significantly less study and anecdotal reports.)

> I am saying that there really isn't a large enough body of scientific evidence yet to conclude definitively that there are no possible mechanisms that could cause this effect, as you stated. Humans aren't uniform systems.

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about there being definitively no possible mechanisms. I said there are, to my knowledge, not known pharmacological mechanisms. If you want to dispute that, you're going to need to find some known pharmacological mechanism.

> HPPD comes to mind, serotonin syndrome, all sorts of possibilities that do not necessitate it being caused by another substance.

HPPD can cause a variety of visual phenomenon. That is not the same thing as having a 3 week long headache. SS is a possibility but now you're into multi-drug interactions, and I'd argue the blame is more on the MAOI or SSRI - those things interact with everything. But even still, the majority of SS cases subside in <24 hours... and the literature isn't exactly favorable to the idea that psilocybin is even a good candidate for causing SS in these cases. https://www.pharmacytimes.com/view/assessing-risk-for-seroto... (Thomas has done several meta-analysis on this subject so he's about as informed on this topic as you can be.)

When something doesn't fit the current model of something, you ask questions about it - that's the starting point to pretty much any investigation. I'm unsure why you find this so egregious.

[newzisforsukas]

I will try to be more charitable in the future with my interpretations.

But as for mechanism, maybe up/down regulation of sertogenic systems, individual specific conditions (kidney disease, liver disease), etc?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03768...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6322052/