[rjbwork]

>“This is the final straw,” Musk wrote on X, the social-media platform he owns. He cited the law as well as “many others that preceded it, attacking both families and companies.”'

Man who hates that his trans child hates him angry that the government isn't forcing trans children to tell their hateful parents they're trans.

If your children aren't comfortable telling you things like this, that's a failure of you as a parent. I'm not going to pretend there isn't social contagion or a bunch of teenagers questioning things out of peer pressure or that actual rates of transness are much lower than their visibility or a million other things. What I am saying is that if your kids are not comfortable talking to you about serious topics like this, you've failed as a parent. Your kids should know you'll love them no matter what and will support them in trying to build a happy life for themselves.

My friend's child believes they are trans, and while the parents are skeptical, there was never any doubt in that kids mind that their parents should know what they are going through and feeling or that they would love them no matter what.

[collingreen]

I think this is a very important post; thank you for writing it. In general, if your kids don't trust you then fixing that should be your first priority before you start pointing fingers everywhere but inward.

Parenting looks very very hard and I'm not implying this is easy - being worthy of trust is one of the hardest things in all our relationships. I do, however, think people need to reckon with the fact that a lot of the time the bad thing teachers are protecting kids from (or at least trying to) is their home life.

This is a bad solution to a bad problem. I dont think teachers are qualified to do this nor do I think they are in a position to do it safely but I do think it is important to help kids get out from under abuse.

I think more community would be a better general solution so it isn't just an underpaid, overworked, and opinionated government employee vs an underpaid, overworked, and opinionated parent with the kid crushed in the middle with no outside help they can turn to.

[JumpCrisscross]

> if your kids don't trust you then fixing that should be your first priority before you start pointing fingers everywhere but inward

While the present state of Musk and his daughter's relationship is detestable, I don't think we can conclude they didn't try--in private--to mend the relationship before she concluded it was a lost cause.

[beaglesss]

There's some interesting behavioral evolutionary calculus that might be interesting here though. If you find out your kid is trans there is a much lower chance they pass on your genes, could it be natural for the relationship to be more likely to break down after that?

I would think evolution would tend to more or less force the most parental resources to go to the most likely propagation of those genes. Especially if there are lots of other children to vie for attention and resources.

[JumpCrisscross]

> If you find out your kid is trans there is a much lower chance they pass on your genes, could it be natural for the relationship to be more likely to break down after that?

While we know transexuality—people having gender identities or conforming to gender norms other than those corresponding to their assigned sex—is preserved across millennia and disparate cultures [1], it’s unclear if it generalises beyond humans [2].

We do, however, see homosexuality across both time and cultures in humans and in animals [3]. That preservation strongly implies evolutionary benefits, whether as a side effect or—more likely, given its strong presentation in social animals—group selection.

So no, I don’t think there is evolutionary pressure for parents to reject trans (or gay) kids. Especially when they’re in a resource rich state.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexual#Historical_under...

[2] https://daily.jstor.org/transgender-proclivities-in-animals/

[3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_anima...

[beaglesss]

I'm not sure history shows parents have on average been comparatively kind to gay children either.

Instinct is definitely one possible explanation for a behavior spanning so much geography and cultures.

[JumpCrisscross]

> not sure history shows parents have on average been comparatively kind to gay children

Historically parents weren’t kind to any children because they were costly and died a lot. (Almost no ancient culture condemned—as we do today—a parent exposing an unwanted baby, for instance, for reasons ranging from birth defect to family rivalry [1]. This behaviour, too, in conserved in animals [2].)

There was a good thread on this a few days ago [3], but TL;DR gay stigmatisation is more recent than homosexuality (or trans sexuality). The behaviour that is older and better conserved across geography and cultures is the underlying one, not the negative backlash. (Also conserved: bad parents.)

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide_(zoology)

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40977331

[etblg]

The motherfucker has 11 kids _that we know about_, maybe he should stop being so worried about passing on his genes Nick Cannon-style, and more worried about being a father to the ones he has.

[kylehotchkiss]

> What I am saying is that if your kids are not comfortable talking to you about serious topics like this, you've failed as a parent. Your kids should know you'll love them no matter what and will support them in trying to build a happy life for themselves.

When Hacker News hits the heartstrings. Great life principle, rjbwork.

[falleng0d]

> Man who hates that his trans child hates him angry

These are very strong accusations. Do you have a reference or is this just an emotional response?

[rjbwork]

I know that his trans child won't speak to him - I surmise it indicates hate, but perhaps not.

Usually when people say things like "this is the final straw" it indicates anger.

You can read more on the former by searching "Xavier Musk" and/or "Vivian Musk".

[s1artibartfast]

Isn't there an inversion taking place in that logic. It stands that she might hate him, but not that he hates her.

[rsynnott]

Well, he seems to have had a complete and very public nervous breakdown about trans people in the last few years, so, well, you do the maths.

[s1artibartfast]

Did he? What did he do?

[defrost]

The statement was not that

"he hates her" but that

"he hates that she hates him".

[s1artibartfast]

I did misread that. Several times in fact.

[defrost]

No drama, we've all skipped a word or three at times.

[JumpCrisscross]

> Do you have a reference

She is quoted saying she no longer wishes "to be related to [her] biological father in any way, shape or form" [1]. Musk has publicly ranted about the estrangement, which isn't usually how one mends ties with family [2]. While I have no personal insight into the situation, it's fair to say Musk hates the estrangement and that his child, at the very least, wants nothing to do with him.

[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/elon-musks-child-seeks-...

[2] https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/10/10/elon-musk-says-he-los...

[Dig1t]

This is discussed in the Walter Isaacson biography that came out last year. Saying he “hates” his daughter is completely wrong and ignores first hand claims from both Musk and his biographer.

>Musk only learned she had transitioned through a secondhand source

>The wife of Elon's brother got a text, Isaacson wrote, which said: "Hey, I'm transgender, and my name is now Jenna". The text from the child, as in the biography, added: "Don't tell my dad."

>The biographer said that Musk was "generally sanguine" when he found out she had transitioned but was hurt when she cut off communication with him.

>The rift pained him more than anything in his life since the infant death of his firstborn child Nevada," Isaacson wrote of Musk's feelings about his relationship with his 19-year-old daughter.

>Isaacson said that Musk blamed the disconnect between him and his daughter on her schooling at Crossroads, a private school she attended in Los Angeles. Musk has made similar comments publicly.

>Last year, he told the Financial Times his daughter didn't want to be associated with him because of what he called the "full-on communism" taught in schools.

https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-comments-relations...

This all explains why he has had such an anti-woke streak, he blames the ideology for poisoning one of his kids against him.

Definitely recommend reading the biography, it’s very interesting.

[rjbwork]

I didn't say he hates his daughter. I'd suggest you reread.

[Dig1t]

Ah my bad, I read it on my phone and read it as "he hates his daughter". Sorry.

Well the rest of my comment is still relevant anyway I guess.

[LightBug1]

Christ ... that's a lot of quoting and referencing. The guy is a douche. It's as simple as that.

[yongjik]

Yeah it's pretty crazy considering Musk's own family backstory. Is he butthurt that his transgender child went no-contact on him before he could kick them out of the family himself?