[m_st]

Woah! Standby is working fine too?

I'm a huge XPS15 advocate at work and really love these machines as a Windows developer. But the standby just doesn't work. If I close the lid and throw it in my bag, then the battery will be empty and the bag will be hot as hell. This is a huge failure and makes me shutdown my XPS15 every evening. Which is just nonsense. I'm a Mac user at home and just never shut these laptops down ever.

[chrsw]

Yes, standby is working fine. I don't have the machine in front of me now but I don't remember fiddling with any of the power settings either. It was all working after the install. I definitely run software update so that might explain why it's working so smooth too.

Meanwhile, my other machine from work is a Precision workstation running Windows 10 and it gives me all kinds of power issues, more invasive updates, random restarts, random high fan RPMs, etc. Dell has already serviced the machine, twice. What a mess.

[haspok]

FWIW I had similar problems with my X1, sleep on lid close was working about 50% of the time (which is probably worse than not working at all, because you genuinely don't know what is going to happen...).

As a quick fix I assigned Ctrl-Meta-L to Sleep (Meta-L is screen lock - I'm using KDE btw). It didn't take long for me to automatically press this combo before closing the lid - I got so much used to it that I had stop stop and think when I got a new laptop later and installed linux fresh on it. And of course I just set it up like before, even though this one works :)

[trelane]

Standby doesn't work on Windows?

[jasonjayr]

In the last few years; Microsoft started pushing this "Modern standby"[1] thing, which lets the CPU run while suspended or something. IIRC it is so a PC can run background services, wifi and what not, like tablets + cell phones.

It is causing so many issues, because the common use case for a laptop is to close the lid, and then stuff it into a padded bag. If anything starts up the laptop for whatever reason, all that heat is trapped in there, cooking the device. Some system BIOS are removing the option to even disable modern standby mode (vs traditional standby where just the memory was energized)

1: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/de...

[mrguyorama]

The rumor is that this is a bug that happens when you close your laptop screen to put it to sleep BEFORE you pull out the power plug, so the laptop basically never realizes it stopped being plugged into the wall, and does work it shouldn't, like a windows update. I always remove the power before putting a laptop to sleep and do not have this problem anymore.

It happens on macbooks too weirdly.

A sleeping laptop, even "modern sleep" should not be doing enough work to create a meaningful amount of heat.

[criddell]

This should work much better than it does. Microsoft is right - Windows machines should be able to run background services as well as a tablet or phone.

Their Modern Standby requirements should have included a clause saying that the machines efficiency core (which I assume is what would be running in standby) should not be able to raise the temperature enough to require a fan.

[haspok]

No, Microsoft did not ask the users if they wanted this or not (or made this behaviour configurable). Just as they did not ask users if they wanted to see ads in their Start menu...

[criddell]

You only want an option because Microsoft and their hardware partners did a poor job with this.

Pretty much nobody asks for the same feature to be configurable on their iPad because it works well.

[jasonjayr]

It works well on mobile devices because from the get-go, it is established that the operating system can aggressively suspend or halt processes. Laptops + PC's, on the other hand, have 40+ years of legacy that assume that the OS won't kill a process unless the user insists, or a resource disaster is imminent. They can deal with a pause, provided the processes external view of the state of the CPU + memory are not drastically changed.

Windows finally had suspend working reliably, where memory was frozen, and nothing else on the PC could change the state of memory or the CPU. Modern standby is Intel/Microsoft's effort to hoist that mobile-style of operating system management onto PC's, in an environment that was not expecting it.

They should have slowly rolled it out, with thermal protections from the get go to prevent disaster, and after a generation or two when the hardware + software are working correctly, made it on by default. It seems like they rushed it for Win 10, and then made it the default on Win 11 before it was really stable.

[mananaysiempre]

> Some system BIOS are removing the option to even disable modern standby mode

The CPU manufacturers have stopped providing support for developing firmware with an S3 (“traditional standby”) function for recent CPU generations, except for a couple of laptop manufacturers receiving special treatment.

[gosub100]

I really hope this doesn't become a contributing factor in a future plane crash from an onboard fire in the baggage compartment. I could see someone throwing their laptop in a suitcase with a bunch of clothes and having that heat building up into a thermal runaway. It's asinine to me that there isn't a hardware thermal sensor that just shuts off power if the heat is too high. In addition to the tragedy of an accident, what will happen is they'll probably block everyone from bringing laptops with them.

[cbm-vic-20]

Oh, you haven't touched your laptop in 30 minutes and we just reached 35,000 feet? This must be a good time to run "Antimalware Service Executable"!

[Dalewyn]

>I could see someone throwing their laptop in a suitcase with a bunch of clothes and having that heat building up into a thermal runaway.

There's this thing called Shut Down. Use it sometimes.

[gosub100]

Why just sometimes?

[Dalewyn]

Gotta learn to crawl before you can walk.

[WD-42]

Standby on windows just appears to be a cue for the OS that the user isn’t actively using the machine so it should use the time to install updates and restart itself 5 times.

[evilduck]

Almost never in my experience.

[iamacyborg]

Certainly doesn’t appear to on my thinkpad

[trelane]

Ouch.

Maybe 2025 will finally be the year of Windows on the desktop!

[rqtwteye]

The year of windows on the desktop was around 2004. Since then Microsoft has diligently worked to make things worse.

[vel0city]

Standby works fine for me on Windows and has for a long time across dozens of different devices.

Chances are if the system keeps waking from sleep, they have some third-party app that keeps waking the system.

[criddell]

The machine isn't waking from sleep, it's that the standby processing is intensive enough and the hardware is so poorly designed that the computer heats up which requires the fan to run.

> When Modern Standby-capable systems enter sleep, the system is still in S0 (a fully running state, ready and able to do work). Desktop apps are stopped by the Desktop Activity Moderator (DAM); however, background tasks from Microsoft Store apps are permitted to do work. In connected standby, the network is still active, and users can receive events such as VoIP calls in a Windows store app. While VoIP calls coming in over Wi-Fi wouldn’t be available in disconnected standby, real-time events such as reminders or a Bluetooth device syncing can still happen.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/de...

[vel0city]

> hardware is so poorly designed

So, don't buy poorly designed hardware? Even my $300 Walmart (Motile) laptop suspends with Connected Standby enabled without issue.

I've had over a dozen devices since 8.1 came out, none of which had problems with Connected Standby.

[throwaway3306a]

Macbooks also wake from sleep while closed and yet it doesn't destroy the computer. How is the computer supposed to do background checks / send its location etc if it can't wake up for a short while?

[vel0city]

Connected Standby has worked on my devices for a decade. When I plug in my laptop to my dock in the office and it wakes up, it comes on pretty much instantly. Its already on the WiFi, which it joined when I walked in the building. My email has already synced. My chat has already synced before I even log in.

It has been doing this just fine since Windows 8 came out across multiple Thinkpads, Surface tablets, and other devices.

Even pre-Windows 8, sleep has generally worked perfectly fine for me. I'd have my computer on sleep between classes, open it up and pretty much instantly be right back in OneNote ready to take notes. Cheap Compaq laptops, expensive HP laptops, IBM Thinkpads, Lenovo Thinkpads, Surface tablets, no-name cheap Walmart laptops, all kinds of devices. In the last almost 20 years I've had less than a dozen instances of a hot bag running XP, Vista, 7, 8, 8.1, 10, now 11.

I had issues with sleep on some desktops in the past, where it wouldn't want to stay in sleep. Every time it was some dumb app waking up the machine. Never due to some specific Windows issue, always something I installed.

[haspok]

I don't want my computer to do _anything_ if I set it to sleep, other than keep the memory contents alive for some time. Although these days even Ubuntu with KDE starts up so fast that the only reason for sleep (instead of shutdown) is to keep some programs running, with some mid-work state.

[dragonwriter]

“How is the computer supposed to do background checks / send its location etc if it can't wake up for a short while?”

Why would I want it to do that? OTOH, coming back from pay of on modern hardware is fast enough that I just reenable hibernation and use that instead of sleep, now that MS has made sleep less sleep-ish.

[throwaway3306a]

I want to find my device if it's lost. I also want it to react to being connected to my desktop docking station without having to open it.

[saagarjha]

Macs have a very limited list of things they are allowed to do when in standby–all code written by Apple.