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by 1vuio0pswjnm7 709 days ago
Except that before GUIs became popular amongst programmers, the "technically unwashed" all used the command line.

Someone may try to claim there were no "technically unwashed" people using computers back then. That would be false.

The "technically unwashed" never asked for GUIs. Programmers forced them to use GUIs the same way they previously forced them to use the command line. And in each case the "technically unwashed" proved they could use computers when they needed to use them. CLI or GUI. It did not matter.

Only programmers debate merits of one versus the other, not the "technically unwashed". HN commenters believe they can speak on behalf of the "technically unwashed". Of course they cannot.

In any event, this submission is not focused on programmmer opinions about which is easier to use. We know what Microsoft thinks about GUIs vs command line. We know Steve Jobs thought. But neither Microsoft nor Jobs is "the technically unwashed".

Instead the submission is focused the notion of easier to _share_ (cf. use). It also mentions creativity.

GUIs limit choices in a way that the command line does not. Decisions are made for the "technically unwashed" through the design of the GUI. For example, programmer thinks/believes "User will want to do ____." Then he adds a button for ____. Unfortunately this can lead to abuse as the programmer can also _prevent_ the user from doing things. Authors of GUI programs try to predict (dictate) how computer owners will use them. The programs are generally inflexible and do not work well with other GUI programs. There is no concept of "pipes" that allows users to be creative.

GUI programs can give programmers the ability to express _their_ creativity while at the same denying such creativity to the "technically unwashed" computer user. The later is not consulted in the design of the GUI. All decisions rest with the programmer. The GUI represents the programmer's preferences and aesthetics, not those of the "technically unwashed" user.

A recent comment on HN was someone complaining about how he could not file a claim on statefarm.com because some programmer had to indulge their love of some Javascript framework. For the programmer, no doubt their work was a thing of "beauty" or some such. For the computer user, it was not. It was an impediment to getting something done.

2 comments

> Except that before GUIs became popular amongst programmers, the "technically unwashed" all used the command line.

Not even remotely factual. Technically unwashed before GUIs is before PC so that means mainframes. And mainframes did indeed have 'terminals' but the interface 'drawn' on these terminals were basically ascii-art GUIs.

On the use of the command line by the "technically unwashed", another presumptuous label by an HN commenter

1. Before the GUI existed

http://www.snobol5.com/s4_history_1981.pdf

"We deliberately tried to produce a language that would be suitable for the person who was not primarily a programmer."

https://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/univOfCalBerkeley/Cal_SNOBOL4_...

"This presentation of Snobol4 is particularly designed for members of the University of California community who have no previous knowledge of computers or computer programming."^FN1

https://www2.cs.arizona.edu/icon/docs/humanit.htm

SNOBOL and Icon were used by "technically unwashed" students in the humanities and other liberal arts majors.

At least two books were published on such usage:

https://archive.org/download/SNOBOL_programming_for_the_huma...

https://web.archive.org/web/20110717172642if_/http://www2.cs...

2. After GUIs became popular

https://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/glazier/essays/occlusi...

https://writing.upenn.edu/epc/authors/glazier/mayapan/mayapi...

https://web.archive.org/web/19990202211132/http://www.dsu.ed...

3. Personal experience: eyewitness accounts

I saw "technically unwashed" high school students use the command line on a TRS-80 owned by a maths teacher; the teacher required the students to use the computer

I saw "technically unwashed" university students in a political science course use the UNIX command line on a VAX

Even after GUIs had become common, in the mid 1990s, I saw a university issue UNIX accounts to all students, including the "technically unwashed"

A common theme was that in each case the "technically unwashed" were required to use the command line. It was not optional.

In each case, they had no trouble using it.

FN1. The SNOBOL implementation at UCB was written by Charles Simonyi who later worked for Xerox PARC and went on to introduce Bill Gates to the GUI, OOP, Hungarian notation and create predecessors for Word and Excel for Microsoft.

The original SNOBOL interpreter was the first to use associative arrays, pre-dating AWK. The idea came from McIlroy.

It influenced and inspired many techniques used in programming projects today, e.g.,

https://www.lua.org

https://snowballstem.org

The later is, e.g., used in PostgreSQL full-text search.

I still use the Dewar SPITBOL interpreter today.

https://web.archive.org/web/20000816232235/http://www.dsu.ed...

https://web.archive.org/web/19990202211132/http://www.dsu.ed...

Icon, i.e., icont and iconx, still compile cleanly on Linux. I get 148 KiB and 318.1 KiB static binaries, respectively.