[its_ethan]

I don't know what it is about cycling that seems to concentrate some of the most insane physiological manipulation (not sure if that's the right phrase tbh).

Other sports like baseball/tennis/etc seem to have some issues with like general steroids. But the level that cyclists go to always seems to exceed them by orders of magnitude.

I don't know how true it is, but I've heard that some cyclists had/have to set alarms throughout the night so they wake up to do jumping jacks to get their heart rates back up above the "artificial" 15bpm that their training + cocktail of drugs has caused.

[LargeWu]

I think because there's less "skill" required, in the sense of hand-eye coordination, than ball sports. The predominant factor seems to be how hard and how long you can push yourself. Once you reach the human body's natural physical limits, chemical advantage seems like the only way to break through those.

[mertd]

As a cyclist (albeit never raced), I want to get offended by this but I feel is largely correct. There is a lot of real time strategizing happening in road races however the marginal gains of simply having more Watts per kg for more hours trumps everything else.

[kevin_thibedeau]

Bicycles are the most efficient form of transport... at moderate speeds. At elite level speeds you are so far down the exponental well of wind resistance that you need meticulous attention to aero savings and sustained power output. All of the possible aero gains permitted under the rules are already accounted for. That leaves power output as the only avenue for gaining a competitive advantage. No other sport has the same combination of antagonizing factors at play.

[its_ethan]

This is an interesting thought, it makes sense intuitively.. I could see it being adjacent to why steroids are prevalent amongst body builders. After you've hit your "genetic wall" for size/strength, chemical advantage could seem like the only way to keep progressing.

It's interesting to see it play out in an "official" sport, rather than just individual workout/ "aesthetic" tournaments. Maybe they should add some more skill elements to major cycling races.. perhaps a slalom through the orange cones of a construction site every few miles? lol

[vorador]

This is very wrong. These guys go downhill on small country roads very fast – sometimes over 100 kmh. You need deep riding skills to handle these speeds without getting injured.

[dtech]

He didn't say no skill, he said less in comparison with other professional sports.

[scott_w]

Try riding down the side of a mountain at 50-70mph and tell me there’s less skill in that

[its_ethan]

For what it's worth, I don't think people are trying to say it's a zero skill sport. It's not an indictment of you or the sport.

I see the "argument" as: in sports like soccer or basketball, skills like dribbling or shooting accuracy don't have a skill "cap" and are generally uncorrelated to physiology. This is compared to the skill of descending a mountain at speed, which is dictated by how fast you can actually make yourself go, which is a matter of physiology.

It's not that strategy and skill don't exist in cycling, it's that raw power output (Watts per Kg) is ultimately the deciding factor once cyclists get to the skill cap of piloting their bike down a mountain.

So basically, could I cycle down a hill at 50-70mph? Absolutely not. But among the people who can, then the competitive advantage becomes how fast you can make yourself go down that hill.

[scott_w]

> I don't think people are trying to say it's a zero skill sport.

I didn’t say you were, you were saying that there’s less skill involved, which is outright untrue.

> in sports like soccer or basketball, skills like dribbling or shooting accuracy don't have a skill "cap" and are generally uncorrelated to physiology.

Skill is highly correlated to physiology at the higher levels. Plenty of people practice as much as Messi, yet haven’t a fraction of his footballing ability.

> It's not that strategy and skill don't exist in cycling, it's that raw power output (Watts per Kg) is ultimately the deciding factor once cyclists get to the skill cap of piloting their bike down a mountain.

You’ve not watched the famous Pidcock descent then.

> the competitive advantage becomes how fast you can make yourself go down that hill.

Very little pedalling is involved at 60mph, it’s 100% skill.

[vorador]

The competitive advantage is not physiological. Following your reasoning, that'd mean an F1 driver's competitive advantage is how fast they can push the pedals to get to 300kmph.

The real advantage is how fast you can navigate dangerous mountain roads which are narrow and have many hairpin turns.

[scott_w]

Only someone who’s never cycled quickly could say there’s less skill involved. Try riding down the side of a mountain at 50mph and follow up your post.

[brandall10]

The other sports you listed provide much more strain on the muscoskeletal system and the cardio impact is bursty. But with cycling you have this amazingly efficient machine relieving that type of stress so it becomes more of an exercise of how efficiently the body can process oxygen and pump blood under constant duress.

[Swizec]

> I don't know how true it is, but I've heard that some cyclists had/have to set alarms throughout the night so they wake up to do jumping jacks to get their heart rates back up above the "artificial" 15bpm that their training + cocktail of drugs has caused.

Even as a casual runner (top 20% in a marathon, def not competitive), I have had to silence low heart rate alarms on my apple watch because my heart rate regularly drops below 40bpm at night. When I’m in peak condition for a race, I’ve seen it drop as low as 30.

Professional cyclists have the highest VO2max of any athlete. Even without drugs I would be completely unsurprised if their heart rate gets to 20bpm in deep sleep.

[its_ethan]

Definitely some amount of it is natural, I'm even less competitive with running than you, but seeing my resting heart rate go down as you ramp up distances is a satisfying thing when you realize the hard work is paying off in a "tangible" way :)

I did a little more googling after the above comment, and it seems like another factor that (in theory) plays into the issue for the anecdote is that their blood can get thicker from doping. So it's a recipe of very low heart rate + extra viscous blood to pump that = danger.

Regardless, it's some pretty interesting/freaky stuff!

[axlee]

Them and cross country skiers (for VO2Max domination)

[anotherboffin]

I had heard that in the context of absurdly high hematocrit, where they would get their heart rate up to move the (very viscous) blood around their body. No source, but doesn’t sound impossible when everyone was on EPO.

[ben7799]

That was the early EPO era.. there were some riders that died in their sleep their blood was so thick from massive amounts of EPO. Their red blood cell counts were excessively high.

[matsemann]

The wake up and walk around the hotel was mainly an EPO thing, where your blood got so thick you otherwise could die.