[Mistletoe]

Did you get skin cancer?

I’ve often wondered if the higher vitamin D we get from the sun or even tanning beds outweighs the risks from melanoma. Low vitamin D is a big risk factor in the modern world.

https://ajcn.nutrition.org/article/S0002-9165(22)03753-4/

https://ar.iiarjournals.org/content/38/2/1111

> Therefore, we rebut these conclusions by addressing the incomplete analysis of the adverse health effects of UV and sunbed exposure (what is ‘safe’?) and the censored representation of beneficial effects, not only but especially from vitamin D production. The stance taken by both agencies is not sufficiently supported by the data and in particular, current scientific knowledge does not support the conclusion sunbed use increases melanoma risk.

[mannykannot]

The first article merely shows that the use of tanning beds is one way to raise vitamin D levels. The second tries to make vitamin D an issue, but to show that there is a case for raising vitamin D levels in a nontrivial part of the population, it relies on studies which show that supplementation via pills is beneficial! It is one thing to say that there is no good evidence for tanning beds increasing melanoma risk (a claim that I am in no position to either endorse or dispute), but I regard it as tendentious for the authors to raise the vitamin D issue when no evidence is presented to show that tanning beds are any better at doing this than simple supplementation - it is like saying that one of the benefits of chemically treating the water supply is that dehydration is bad for you.

[Mistletoe]

It is known that vitamin D is best obtained from sunlight. I was once at a dinner and sitting with the head of the office for supplements for the United States and asked him how much vitamin D someone should get. His answer was quite simple, get it from sunlight. The skin autoregulates vitamin D dosage that way.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3897598/

>Thus when the skin is exposed to sunlight it can only convert approximately 15% of 7-dehydrocholesterol to previtamin D3 (Fig. 18).32 Any further exposure will result in a photoequilibrium whereby previtamin D3 is converted into lumisterol3 and tachysterol3 as well as revert back to 7-dehydrocholesterol (Fig. 17). In addition when vitamin D3 is made from previtamin D3 in the skin if it is exposed to solar UVB radiation it will absorb UVB radiation and be converted into several suprasterols and 5,6-trans-vitamin D3 (Figs. 17 and and19).19). In addition previtamin D3 can also be converted to several toxisterols (Fig. 20).33-36 Therefore no matter how much sun a human is exposed to vitamin D intoxication will not occur because any excess previtamin D3 and vitamin D3 is photodegraded into products that have no calcemic activity.31,32

[mannykannot]

No doubt, but it is an empirical fact that this is not working too well for a nontrivial number of people - and if it were working well, there would still be no reason to bring up the issue in the article about sunbeds, especially as no evidence for vitamin D intoxication being a difficult-to-avoid problem in practice was presented either in that article or above. If sunlight is the optimal solution, then outdoor activity is better for you than lolling on a sunbed.

I am a case in point: I am frequently outdoors in all seasons, well beyond the point where I have to be careful to avoid sunburn, yet I have a significant all-seasons vitamin D deficiency. The conclusion of the abstract to the article you link to says "a three-part strategy of increasing food fortification programs with vitamin D, sensible sun exposure recommendations and encouraging ingestion of a vitamin D supplement when needed should be implemented to prevent global vitamin D deficiency and its negative health consequences" [my emphasis.]

[AlexandrB]

To get enough vitamin D you need ~10 minutes a day[1] in direct sunlight with 25% skin exposed.

> In spring and summer, 25 percent of the body (the hands, face, neck and arms) is exposed to the sun, and in these seasons, about 8 to 10 minutes of sun exposure at noon produces the recommended amount of vitamin D.

[1] https://www.uclahealth.org/news/article/ask-the-doctors-roun...

[layer8]

At noon, in summer, in Spain. And probably 25% of your skin needs to be hit by direct perpendicular sunlight, and not just be exposed. In any case, don’t assume, go measure your Vitamin D levels.

[jimbokun]

So 20 minutes then, just to be sure.

[layer8]

Sunlight intensity varies greatly. Depending on where you live, season and cloudiness, you may only get a small fraction of the amount implied above. Again, there is no substitute for measuring your levels. Speaking from experience.

[snapplebobapple]

Or take your shirt off to increase exposed area...

[jfengel]

Anecdata-point: In the summer I regularly run for hours at a time (marathon training), without a shirt and without sunscreen. (I've got a good tan which seems to keep me from getting sunburned.) And yet I regularly test as low Vitamin D. A daily Vitamin D supplement suffices to keep the numbers in range.

I assume that this is a personal thing, something about my specific metabolism or skin or whatever that doesn't produce vitamin D particularly well. I have no idea if the supplement actually improves my health outcome -- I was generally healthy both before and after adding supplements.

My advice, such as it is: don't take any supplement without a doctor telling you it's needed. But if a doctor says it's necessary, yeah, do that.

[treprinum]

You can significantly lower risk of dying from melanoma by taking H1 antihistamines, especially desloratadine and to some extent diphenhydramine.

[amelius]

At least provide a source for this information please.

[treprinum]

Desloratadine: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7868613/

Diphenhydramine: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27779705/

[pharaohgeek]

No, my cancer was a sarcoma in my left shoulder.