[blackbear_]

Using salaries in Italy, Spain, and Hungary as means of comparison and pretending they are be representative of the "European market" reeks of dishonesty. Salaries in Germany, France and UK for those same roles are 2x or sometimes 3x higher than those mentioned in the article. This is certainly a factor for migration within Europe

[TacticalCoder]

> Salaries in Germany, France and UK for those same roles are 2x or sometimes 3x higher than those mentioned in the article.

Taxation. At 2x or 3x in France you'd already be at 41% income tax bracket. Then 45%.

And of course a country like France doesn't just tax income: it taxes everything, to death.

You can be making 2x that of someone in Spain, if you pay 41% on that additional money, suddenly it doesn't really like 2x anymore.

In the UAE (say, Dubai: a very thought after destination by many) there was no income tax and if there's one now, it's mild (I think 0% on the first $125 K then 9% on money above that).

France is not a net importer of talent. It's exporting a shitload of engineers to SV and the UAE. France is however a net importer of underqualified people, many of whom do not find any work, putting a strain on the economy and giving politicians the idea of taxing people who work in France even more.

In 2023 the state's income was much lower than expected, which prompted Bruno Lemaire, the economy and finance minister, to cheat and fudge the numbers to try to hide the gigantic hole. French senate called him for it.

Yup: the situation in France is that bad they now have to cheat on the numbers they present, like Greece did (and we know how it ended up for Greece).

> This is certainly a factor for migration within Europe.

Seen the current political situation in France, I don't know who'd be foolish enough to want to move there at the moment.

[rat9988]

> France is however a net importer of underqualified people, many of whom do not find any work.

Any numbers on the visa for underqualified people? I'd be surprised if this statmeent is even remotely true for legal immigration.

[culopatin]

And yet half of the ones in the US. At least based on when I got some offers last year when I was considering moving to Europe

[poincaredisk]

What are you saving for? I keep hearing people in the US earn much more, and it's certainly true in absolute terms, but... I live in a poorer (but not poor, just not germany/france) EU country, with a relatively good but not great salary. I earn way more than I need - I can afford the apartment I want (recently moved to a bigger one due to becoming a parent), I know medical bills won't bankrupt me in case of emergency, I can afford things I want (computers, clothes, eating out, sport equipment, car). Despite not really trying I still save a lot of money.

At the same time, I hear about IT people living in an American metropoly, earning much more than I do, and supposedly struggling with bills. I wonder if the cost of living differences are that huge, or maybe I just have low standards, or is it something different altogether.

[wait_a_minute]

A house, land, hobbies, an emergency fund in case needing time away from work, investments, nicer things, a stay-home wife, children, traveling, supporting loved ones, there are so many possible reasons.

[culopatin]

I’m saving to buy land and enjoy hobbies I wouldn’t even dream of trying in Europe because I’d be living in a small apartment. Nothing wrong with that, I actually grew up in that sort of life. I’m not your average American… I’m not even American. My salary is modest, not Silicon Valley/Netflix senior numbers, and I don’t live paycheck to paycheck. But the “eh it’s good enough” life of Europe and the country I grew up in is… well, too small for my dreams.

[pokerface_86]

porsche’s and penthouses

[cherryteastain]

London is competitive with tier 2 US cities (i.e. not SF/NYC/Seattle). Switzerland is competitive even with Tier 1 US cities. COL and taxes are higher though.

[culopatin]

So it’s not competitive if taxes are higher and COL is higher. What one cares about is the final income in pocket and purchasing power. I don’t really care if my salary says “1 million” if I keep 50k of that, I only care about the final number unless there is some tax loophole one can exercise like pre tax deductions, but still…

[theodric]

I don't buy that COL is significantly higher unless you're firehosing money everywhere for the hell of it. You can spend scads of money, but you're not obligated to. I lived there for five years, and left in December. My grocery bill was the same as it is now in Ireland (but still less than my parents pay in Chicagoland) and while I don't pay rent in Ireland, a friend just got a "steal" on an apartment @ €2500/mo in outer Dublin, while I was paying CHF 2250 for a 3-storey townhouse with private parking in outer Zürich. Road tax is similar. Health insurance more in CH, but we're talking 6k/yr vs 2.4k. And income tax was so low in CH that the foreign tax credit didn't do much for me, and I ended up having to cut a check to the IRS for 5 figures every year. Switzerland is truly exceptional, and you can make crazy money there.

[cherryteastain]

Lifestyle is different. For example, you don't need a car in London, that's an easy 5-10k in savings per year.