[slg]

>There are many, many reasons why we have sex-separated spaces: privacy, dignity, modesty, safety, fairness, peace of mind, personal hygiene, santiation, cleanliness of facilities, lesbian and gay socialising, group bonding, therapeutic efficacy, organizing and campaigning.

But that was only half of the equation. Why are these "rights" only relevant for women? How can you define these as a right if other groups do not have the same protection?

>privacy, dignity, modesty,

Can a straight man cite his right for "privacy, dignity, modesty" when kicking a gay man out of a locker room?

>safety

Do you think it would be safe for a trans woman who has surgically transitioned to be housed in a male prison?

>fairness

I dedicated almost that whole previous post trying to get you to define what a right to "fairness" really means, but you ignored all those questions.

>peace of mind

Do you think a passenger should be able to force an airline to kick a Muslim off a plane to get "peace of mind"?

>personal hygiene, santiation, cleanliness of facilities,

Are my rights violated if I walk into a public restroom and the person before me didn't flush?

>lesbian and gay socialising

If homosexuals have a right to their own segregated socializing environment, can a school host a dance for only straight people?

>organizing and campaigning

Could a campaign event for a local white politician kick someone out for simply being black?

[granibran]

I'm sorry that you spent so much time writing out so many irrelevant questions when the topic we're discussing is the threat to women's rights from males who feel entitled to usurp every space that's intended solely for women. I'll answer the relevant ones and ignore the others. I don't see much point in encouraging gish gallop discussions, let's keep it focused.

> Do you think it would be safe for a trans woman who has surgically transitioned to be housed in a male prison?

Depends on how well the prison is safeguarding its vulnerable male prisoners. I expect your implication here is that he should be moved to a female prison. That's usually why this question is asked in this sort of discussion. However this would obviously be nonsense, as he is male and therefore his safety is the responsibility of those running the male prison. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the female prison estate.

> I dedicated almost that whole previous post trying to get you to define what a right to "fairness" really means, but you ignored all those questions.

No, sorry but you asked a load of questions irrelevant to the topic. Just to expand on my earlier response: female-only sporting competitions exist for the most part because male performance is such a huge categorical advantage that sex segregation is needed for the competitive advantages amongst women and girls to play out. Allowing a subset of males to compete in women's sport just because they demand to is fundamentally unfair, because of this categorical advantage.

[slg]

>the topic we're discussing is the threat to women's rights from males

And that is a perfect summary of the conversation because I would say I was discussing universal rights. I believe that central to the idea of rights is that they are applied universally. You were advocating for women to be a legally distinct and implicitly lesser group than any other class of people because you think they need explicit protections from men. I intended for my questions to show the flaws in defining rights that way by applying those concepts to other groups. I was pointing out we don't define gay rights in relation to straight rights or the rights of black people in relation to white people. Defining women's rights by their relationship to men is codifying a gender hierarchy. "Separate but equal" is not a desired end state of civil rights.