[ASalazarMX]

We are just monkeys trying to explain the universe and failing miserably because we're not smart enough to understand it at the basic level. Having failed repeatedly, some monkeys declare it mysterious and unknowable because they are too proud to embrace our limitations.

That we are not able to understand how, doesn't prove that life and consciousness arise from anything besides physics. Magic doesn't exist.

I'm not foreign to the irony of a dumb monkey declaring something doesn't exist, but I think it's been overwhelmingly clear through the ages that magic never has had any direct effect outside our imaginations.

[llamaimperative]

No one is claiming it arises from anything besides physics, or at least I’m not.

[ASalazarMX]

Oh, I re-read your original comment and you're right. You said the origin of life is mysterious/special, and that we can't find how consciousness starts, but never attributed that mystery/specialness/lack of evidence to magic.

I think the wording made me assume you thought those processes had supernatural aid instead of the the incessant trial-and-error of the universe. That's a common argument when discussing the origin of life and consciousness.

[llamaimperative]

Ah yes, you’re reading me correctly now! Apologies for the lack of clarity.

[mistermann]

> Magic doesn't exist.

This itself seems a bit magical.

Do atoms exist?

If so, when did they start to exist?