[petercooper]

I wonder if those playing the "it's cheesy but c'mon, it's not offensive" line have missed the 20+ discussions about sexism and how to foster a healthy environment for women in tech on HN over the last year.

The assumption that developers are men is enough here, and speakers at the conference mentioned in the song have expressed surprise and distaste at their inclusion. For example, they say "Lea Verou will make your dreams come true" to which Lea noted: "I think mine tops all of them in terms of cheesiness and creepiness."

As much as it's tacky fun (much like that hack day note about having women serving beer [1] or the woman in her underwear promoting geek t-shirts [2]), it's also antagonistic, creepy, objectifies women, and reinforces an image that no-one wants or needs at a programming conference if we want to appeal to a diverse audience. Sadly, people who brush this off as OK are part of the problem but will deny this until, well, they sober up later on (said as someone who felt the issue was unimportant a couple of years ago).

[1]: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3731229

[2]: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3739913

[alexanderh]

I fail to see the creepyness/offensive factor of the "Lea Verou will make your dreams come true" line (even if thats what she personally felt)

I took it to mean "programming" dreams. Whatever anyone else did with that in their own mind is their problem. Is there some missing context I'm missing? Just because the other parts of the song sorta mentioned penises, vaginas and drugs, that means they MUST be talking about sex in reference to Lea? I didnt make that connection.

I'd say those parts were much more offensive than the Lea Verou line. I had no idea who Lea Verou was before this, but now I have another great female tech role model to follow.

Overall this was extremely distasteful, and I think microsoft with all their money could provide much better entertainment

But who's to say whats popular in Norway? I certainly don't know what their social norms are. But I also dont know how this conference was marketed. Was it truly a regional event?

[overgryphon]

There is a problem with sexism in the software development community that needs to be acknowledged and addressed. The Lea Verou line was incredibly creepy and inappropriate, and some of the other lyrics were also ill considered.

But the dancing itself, or the idea of women(? I think there may have been some men, couldn't tell) dancers at a development conference does not make me feel objectified. The dancers were not dressed inappropriately (long sleeves and shorts? I could probably wear that at work let alone a nightclub), and the dancing was not suggestive (especially in contrast to normal club dancing). I thought the dancing was fine.

[jsprinkles]

"Sexism" and "creepiness" are not synonyms of each other.

[knowtheory]

I'm not clear on what distinction you're actually trying to draw here.

The objectification of women (and creepy behavior as an extension of that) is inherently alienating and in almost all circumstances is sexist (just by virtue of the fact that there's not a lot of folks out there creeping both women and men)

At the very least the two sets overlap heavily even if they are not synonymous.

[tomjen3]

I am an atheist, which I know generally offends people, and some people think I deserve to die for that.

Meaning I can't give a shit if some people get offended. If females don't show up, that is their choice.

[ceol]

You being an atheist really has nothing to do with this. Being offended at how women are objectified/marginalized in the tech industry and being offended at someone's personal religious choice are two completely different things.

Also, it's "women", not "females".

[tomjen3]

I prefer reserving the term women for actual people and females for aggregrate groups. Makes it easier to keep the two separated.

[monjaro]

Women showing up to tech conferences are actual people.

[tomjen3]

Sure and and it makes sense to call Amy from the Python conference in '12 a woman. She is an individual with feelings, hopes and dreams.

But if you want to discuss this issue, you have to do it in aggregate, concerning youself with the average person and what problems she statistically has. Then it makes sense to say female. She isn't a real person, just like no person actually has 2,3 kids.