[h0l0cube]

Depends on how scrupulous Average Person is being. There's codes for electrical and solar installations that can be followed, and it's best to stick to the letter, even if you're certain it doesn't apply. And after that, you should get it certified by a licensed professional, but would also need a licensed professional to hook it up to the grid

[lazide]

I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m trying to say.

I’m talking about assembling your own multi-kwh lithium battery assemblies (pre-BMS even).

One wrong poke with a screwdriver, and all sorts of entertainment is likely to ensue eh?

And they’re big enough, no portable fire extinguisher is going to make a dent either.

[h0l0cube]

> One wrong poke with a screwdriver

I'm not sure where you're jamming the screwdriver, but certainly any wrenches/tools you use should be insulated if you're dealing with very high current and/or high voltage. Enclosures, insulated wires, conduits, terminal covers should be used to avoid short circuits. Also proper earthing and circuit isolation with RCBOs to protect from electric shock and overcurrents frying the wires/you, all which should be switched to the off position when you're poking your screwdriver, eh? ;)

> And they’re big enough, no portable fire extinguisher is going to make a dent either.

If you aren't doing basic safety things and somehow manage thermal runaway on LiFePo4 (pretty hard), you're probably going to melt some copper. Probably best not to put your battery assembly near flammable things, unless you want to see the world burn like this guy (though at low voltage/high current)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywaTX-nLm6Y

[defrost]

Sure, you're saying some people shouldn't DIY.

Where I live many people DIY as a great many people have mad skills (lots of FiFo workers making a good living from O&G installions and big mining projects).

They build their own houses, their own planes, off grid power systems, water proof EV's to drive across harbour floors, etc.

If you've got a big (shipping container sized) battery pack you need a big thermal blanket to cut off the oxygen or a wide enough fire break about it.

Speaking of DIY home builds, here's a good use of black builders plastic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ILbQHnHPnY

[lazide]

No, you’re talking about building structures.

I’m talking about assembling a bomb.

A 5kwh battery contains about 18MJ of energy, equivalent to 4.3KG of TNT. Short that out or puncture on of its component pouches, and it’s going to be very dramatic.

One of them requires a different degree of care than the other.

[defrost]

You're still making the same irresponsible and frankly silly generalisation about "average" people.

Most people, full stop, don't build houses, metal work shops, treat their own sewerage, build their own power systems, etc.

So "average" people just don't start fires or set off bombs because they're not doing anything that dangerous.

Of the people that do, say, build their own glass furnaces, annealing ovens, laying out gas lines and installing small truck sized propane tanks with more energy than a 5kwh battery .. easily less than half, well below the "average" number of people that do such things, have accidents.

Sure, some people do watch Forged in Fire and have a go at knife making in a home built furnace, and then set fire to their barn | house | shed.

Most people don't try, and of those that do have a go most of them don't screw it up.

The point being, this:

> Also prone to average people setting themselves or their houses on fire, eh?

is just silly.

Average people don't attempt this, and of the people that do attempt such things most don't cock it up.

Perhaps your personal experience differs.

Maybe you can't dig your own septic system and fit it out without shit running back into your house.

[lazide]

Near as I can tell, you literally never even read my comment.

So seriously, WTF?

You’re doing on this weird rant, when I literally just said average people shouldn’t be assembling their own multi-kWh lithium battery packs unless they want to burn their houses down.

Which is, indeed, good advice. And pertinent to the discussion.

Where this bizarre tangent you keep going off on is not.

[defrost]

Near as I can tell, you literally never even read my comment.

Consider that I explicitly stated:

* They build their own ... planes

* They build their own ... off grid power system(s)

* They ... water proof EV's to drive across harbour floors

and you responded that "No, you’re talking about building structures. I’m talking about assembling a bomb."

Let me remind you that aircraft are bombs, off grid power systems are bombs, water proof EV's with battery packs large enough to drive 7 km's underwater have the same issues you're talking about.

You apparently didn't pause to read the content of my comment before launching into a "Yes, but ..."

I've already linked to locally built ground effect plane (with builders plastic for wings), here's a locally built EV: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-30/nt-world-record-darwi...

Average people are quite capable of doing extraordinary things and not burning down their houses - you just have a low opinion of "average".

Idiots that can't read manuals and installation guides should avoid house grade battery packs, sure.

[h0l0cube]

> average people shouldn’t be assembling their own multi-kWh lithium battery packs unless they want to burn their houses down

Average goofs shouldn't be assembling their own solar system and battery setups. Even an average person will apprise themselves of the know-how to proceed safely, and are legally obliged to do so. If average person is not interested in doing that, they'll call on a professional, and in some places, that is the only legal option. But perhaps there are contradictory stats out there to show that there's a real widespread phenomenon of well-meaning Average Joes and Janes that are burning down houses with DIY batteries.

[10u152]

FUD.

This isn’t running a nuclear reactor it’s following some basic rules and common sense.

Lifepo4 is much more stable than you seem to think.