[sigmoid10]

>Why build machines at great scale when there is so much almost free human labor?

It's crazy that to some extent this is still true today. Automation could go a lot further with existing technologies and make many workers' lives easier or safer. But it is often cheaper to hire humans and burn through them instead of spending the money to implement new kinds of robotics. Especially when companies only think until the next quarter.

[itronitron]

This is probably the best argument in favor of universal basic income (UBI). Any nation that leans into that can then focus on innovation.

[skirge]

People who will depend on UBI won't innovate. People who innovate don't need UBI. Slavery was expensive (guards, low productivity). In USSR Soviets realised that in Gulags it's more effective to pay Zeks regular salary and treat them as contractors than keep them as slave work force.

[NegativeLatency]

UBI and better healthcare would allow me the freedom to innovate. Right now it’s a much more significant barrier to strike out on my own and build something. So it makes more sense to me to just have a 9-5 job, but if there was a bit more wiggle room I’d certainly try it.

[bluGill]

Would you innovate or just play minecraft/guitar or read books about innovation but never innovate.

[shiroiushi]

Some people would just play Minecraft, but a few would innovate, and the economic value of those innovations would be far greater than the economic value lost to the Minecraft players who quit their McJobs.

[skirge]

> would be far greater how you calculated that?

[NegativeLatency]

Nah, probably something related to computers or bikes and woodworking. Maybe I could combine all 3

[ab5tract]

Early science in the Renaissance and later, until the 20th century, was almost entirely driven by people who could afford to pursue their efforts while sustained by income that required little or zero direct effort.

Give humanity a chance. It might just surprise you.

[skirge]

They were extraordinary minds and very rare. For 40 years I live among people who receive some amounts of unconditional money. All they invented is how to drink bottle of vodka at once (I can't do that, impressive). Most of humans are lazy, greedy and envy, that's why we need to raise children and show them what is "proper". I do believe in some people. Loans or stipends are better - they create mutual contract, you feel you need to give something in return.

[K0balt]

Umm… I think you are deeply misguided on this.

Earlier in life I created something that has generated a minimal stipend every month. That small security has enabled me to take risks, produce art, create technical processes, construct the water, power, data, and physical infrastructure for a private sustainable community, take a couple of years off to educate my children in technology, and, in short, prosper. It is life changing to know that the worst that can happen if you fail is that you will be mildly uncomfortable for a period of your choosing.

OTOH I see a lot of wasted potential, talented people working banal 9 to 5 jobs because they can’t risk failure, forgoing learning opportunities because they can’t take the time, and in general stuck in employment traps that prevent them from ever refining their natural talents.

Sure, some people will do nothing with their lives despite the opportunities presented to them… but many, many people would do much, much more if they weren’t trapped in a system designed to harvest, under duress of homelessness, the vast majority of their useful time in exchange for the lowest possible compensation.

[skirge]

that's strange excuse, if you don't work from 9 to 5 pretending to innovate but don't everyone loses.

[dclowd9901]

why do you say folks who depend on UBI won’t innovate? Logically speaking it almost seems more probable they would since they wouldn’t need to devote time and energy to a job.

[skirge]

no need to improve life if you have enough already

[holoduke]

The American way of thinking. Meanwhile half the workforce essentially still works as a slave.

[typon]

As someone who works in a robotics company, our biggest competition is minimum wage Latinos working in warehouses.

[eichin]

It's only occasionally said out loud, but yeah, pretty much everyone selling warehouse robotics supports raising the minimum wage :-)

[dekhn]

After many years of working on the the problem of biological automation, I came to conclude that it's really hard to beat an extremely skilled/smart lab tech for general purpose experiments. And my company thinks on the decade+ timescale.

[sigmoid10]

True. But what percentage of the workforce is extremely skilled and smart lab techs? And who knows, if we automate mundane normal jobs, we might get more people who find the time to pursue such high level skills instead of being worried about paying for food.