[thriftwy]

> LPR/DPR are fiction created by Russia to mask their invasion

Why does LPR/DPR militia fight the Ukrainian army then, from 2014 onwards? Because they totally do. They are among the most motivated troops.

> Anything less than a retreat from Ukraine is not a serious proposal

Then more Ukrainians will die "defending their homes", as well as Russians of course. And have a good day.

> Without millions of people acting as his willing executioners

They just really don't like the state of Ukraine (and post-Soviet borders), but at the same time want Russia to win the war. It's simple.

[mopsi]

> Why does LPR/DPR militia fight the Ukrainian army then, from 2014 onwards? Because they totally do. They are among the most motivated troops.

There never was such a thing. The war in the east started on 12 April 2014, when Russian commandos led by Igor Girkin from FSB seized government buildings in Sloviansk. The ECHR did not find any evidence of a militia in Ukraine that wasn't manned, supplied and controlled by Russian armed forces. But you cannot admit any of this, because without the origin-myth of civil war in Ukraine, the whole justification for the invasion would collapse.

> Then more Ukrainians will die "defending their homes", as well as Russians of course.

That's the price many nations in Europe have had to pay for their freedom. It is not too common to see people throw away their freedom and willingly become serfs like Russians have under Putin. There is no greater indictment of modern Russia than the the fact that Ukrainians choose to go through this hell if it saves them from ending up with the kind of life you have.

> They just really don't like the state of Ukraine (and post-Soviet borders), but at the same time want Russia to win the war. It's simple.

Indeed. Simply a Russian version of Nazism. Delusional ideas about rearranging the world put forward by a paranoid dictator, with population that out of deep inferiority complex willingly believes his soothing lies and follows him blindly, united under Z-swastika, in murdering peaceful people across Europe by hundreds of thousands while erasing entire cities from existence. And then you wonder why no-one respects you and why Russia is increasingly seen as a curse on this world.

[thriftwy]

> when Russian commandos led by Igor Girkin from FSB seized government buildings in Sloviansk

DPR was already proclaimed by then, and I believe most of these comandos were on Ukrainian passports ATM.

> That's the price many nations in Europe have had to pay for their freedom

Then why all the whining? I don't shed so much tears and complain to UN when opening my wallet.

> Delusional ideas about rearranging the world

No - that's just siding with your country and your people.

> why no-one respects you

Frankly, we don't care, because we do not respect you either anymore. And that one will be much harder to undo.

[mopsi]

> DPR was already proclaimed by then, and I believe most of these comandos were on Ukrainian passports ATM.

Ukrainian citizenship doesn't prevent one from serving Russian interests. As the ECHR concluded after reviewing facts, there is no reason to consider the people who started the war in Eastern Ukraine as distinct from Russian armed forces. Russian government brought together the people, equipped them, gave them goals to fulfill, and supported them in any way they could. Likewise, the Freedom of Russia Legion is without any doubt a part of Ukrainian armed forces despite consisting mainly of defected Russians.

> Then why all the whining?

It's you and your Führer who are constantly whining how everyone humiliates and deceives you. Just a few days ago, he came up with a new sob story - that the assault on Kyiv failed not because of successful counterattacks at Hostomel and Irpin, but because western countries deceived Russia into a ceasefire that they dutifully followed. How can you listen to that and not think "what a moron"?

> No - that's just siding with your country and your people.

That's what Nazis and their supporters thought too when they rallied around Hitler. Hitler didn't act in Germany's best interests and nor does Putin act in Russia's best interests. The longer it takes you to recognize it, the deeper hole you will have to crawl out from. It's great irony that revenge has put you on track of repeating the 1990s.

[thriftwy]

For Russians, the 1990s are as coupled to territorial losses and new borders as they are to economic hardships. So tearing down these borders is a case of recovery.

Other than that, molon labe.

[mopsi]

> For Russians, the 1990s are as coupled to territorial losses and new borders as they are to economic hardships. So tearing down these borders is a case of recovery.

No, I am not speaking about the mythical 1990s as they exist in the mass conscious in the present day, warped by a huge dose of Soviet nostalgia. I am speaking about the 1990s that people actually lived through. Hyperinflation, shortages, poverty, crime. Breakdown of social order. Life's savings losing value almost overnight. Wages going unpaid for months and months. Abandoned kids sniffing glue and no-one caring. Few people had the luxury to care about issues beyond their immediate survival. Knew a family that had collected enough money for a house. Money lost value in such a short time that they managed to get only an ugly floor lamp by the time reality hit them. Nobody gave a shit where borders ran or if they even existed.

Massive spending on completely non-productive activities like the war against Ukraine while the world pivots away from you in disgust is a solid strategy for reaching such socio-economic deterioration again.

And it's important to stress that the 1990s were not seen as separate chapter at the time, but as the natural endgame of USSR's deep internal rot and failure to provide even bare sustenance to its population. Somehow you managed to run a resource-rich country into the ground during peacetime, and dragged down with you the European nations that you had enslaved during the WWII. And yet, for some reason, you think you've suffered a great injustice and still deserve an empire. Why? You can't run a normal country.

[thriftwy]

> I am speaking about the 1990s that people actually lived through. Hyperinflation, shortages, poverty, crime. Breakdown of social order. Life's savings losing value almost overnight.

I can see that happening easily if Putin loses his war, and all of the options I've ever saw coming from the West drooling with saliva converge to Russia losing.

As Sukhov once said, "I'd prefer to suffer a bit".

> still deserve an empire.

Not sure about Putin, but I don't want one. A nation state would suffice. Crimea is populated by Russians. Everybody speaks Russian in Lugansk, Donetsk and Mariupol. I don't see any utility in a border which separates them from the rest of Russia, or any excuse for it to be where it is. I'm not against any borders at all, just these particular ones.