[Andrew_nenakhov]

I've been arguing here that Apple should not decide what apps a user can run on an owned device, yet, scores of commenters right here, on Hacker News, were telling me, "do research prior to buying the device". No, you shouldn't.

Apple should be stripped off this power. EU's DMA is a first step, but we need such policies applied everywhere. So far, the only ones who benefit from AppStore monopoly are Apple themselves and various authoritarians around the world.

[constantcrying]

>Apple should be stripped off this power.

The article is about the app store, which apple obviously should have control over. A company can not operate outside the laws of the country it is operating in.

This issue is separate from Apple having a monopoly on app distribution (outside of the EU).

[avmich]

> A company can not operate outside the laws of the country it is operating in.

In case of Russia, Apple is not or should not be operating in the country, so the condition isn't met.

[tpmoney]

>Apple should be stripped off this power. EU's DMA is a first step, but we need such policies applied everywhere.

What do you suppose happens when those same authoritarians make a reverse DMA and require that all phones sold be locked down only to a single centralized market place? If one thinks Apple should be complying (and bear in mind the amount of consternation there has already been around "malicious compliance) with EU laws and policies, I'm not sure how one can be consistent in thinking they should be ignoring Russian law and policies.

Don't get me wrong, in my personal opinion, Apple should not be doing business either in Russia or in China. At the same time, I understand that if they did that, it wouldn't be materially improving things for the citizens of those countries. The only win would be for Apple / Apple employees in not having to comply with laws that violate "American ideals." However, that same ethical stance would be just as applicable to the idea of pulling out of EU markets too if Apple felt that the DMA was against "American ideals." To my mind there are only two possible consistent stances:

1) Comply with all laws and policies of each host country, regardless of personal beliefs / attitudes, and apply why pressure and objections you can to change those same laws and policies. 2) Do not do business in any country where the laws and policies violate your personal beliefs and attitudes, and loudly refuse to do that business until such time as those laws and policies are changed.

The third option of picking and choosing which laws you will or won't be complying is of course an option, but it is not consistent, nor am I sure if you could trust Apple to do that if you already don't feel you can trust them to manage app access on their platform.

[saurik]

Somehow, Android devices currently sold into both China and Russia both support sideloading apps, including VPNs. Apple has set up a situation where they are able to be used like this, and if you think that a country is going to put in laws to require phones work like this, the only reason that could even make sense is because Apple is willing to do so and has set the stage for it being normalized.

As it stands, Apple fights tooth and nail against EU regulation of their business model and yet simultaneously goes far above and beyond what any other company is doing to comply with requests from totalitarian regimes? Apple--the company, sure, but also, concretely: the people who work there--are traitors to democracy.

We simply shouldn't be willing to create technology where anyone could even come to us with such a request, even if it is the basis of a lucrative business model, as we KNOW totalitarian regimes will then take advantage of us as patsies for the subjugation of their people; and, if the resulting profit is just too lucrative for investors, businesspeople, and engineers to leave on the table, we should make it illegal.

Back in 2017, I gave a long talk at Mozilla Privacy Lab focusing on this very topic, using numerous examples that are all copiously cited. It will never not be shocking to me that, given how clear and constant it is that centralized control WILL lead to corruption--if not on purpose then accidentally, and if not from the inside then from outside actors using coercive actions, legal or otherwise--that people continue to defend the construction of centralized empires :/.

https://youtu.be/vsazo-Gs7ms

[votkon]

right now it just led to Russian users changing their App Store regions. I guess everyone will do that at some point of time in Russia. That's what they did with Sony PS accounts en masse.